As the weather turns cooler, demand for coffee, hot chocolate, and cider increases. Hot drinks are a big seller this time of year and they have a very nice profit margin.
So today’s question is from Charlie. He writes…
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Hi Steve,
I need your help. Do you know what I could look into as far as selling coffee from my cart? I have been asked to do breakfast at my site and I really don’t know what is truly cost effective to hold the coffee in. I just need some ideas.
Best Regards,
Charlie
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I have a lot of slingers here at Hot Dog Cart News who sell hot drinks. One in particular, Roger V, sells coffee and related beverages exclusively from his totally cool Moto-Espresso Coffee Cart, above.
So how about it gang, share your tips on the art and science of cart based hot drink sales in the comments.
Thanks!
-Steve
Been thinking about this myself. Really interested to hear how everyone is doing this.
It’s a toss up!!! Some places have die-hard coffee
drinkers and some places I cannot give it away…
Get you two 19.99 hot pots(reg.&decaf) from SAMS and give it a try…About Breakfast check with your HEALTH dept. and see what they say before investing in any eggs or bacon ……I LIKE
THE COOL LOOKING CART…
Cambro makes a very nice hot beverage dispenser. Any restaurant supply should have them. They come in 3 or 5 gallon. Best thing in spring and summer you can serve iced tea or lemonade
Cecil, I am thinking the same way you are. I can brew coffee at home in a 30 cup electric brewer and put it in a Cambro with locking top clamps and a hot spout. How long will it stay hot enough to sell? I’m figurin 2-3 hours tops. What’s your input? Thanks Frank(Franks Pushcart,Bayonne NJ).
I work auctions in the winter, as well as Black Friday events with my hotdog cart. I bought (2) 100 cup coffee pots (about $130 each), and 2 5 gal beverage cambros (also about $130 each).
I brew coffee in one pot, and hot water in the other. I make 5 gallons of coffee, and 5 gallons of hot chocolate. I do this before I leave my house. This way, I don’t require any electricity.
In a recent experiment that I did…
I probed the hot water when it was finished at 210 degrees F. I put it in the cambro, and put it outside in 30 degree weather. I left it out there all night (overnight temp was around 25 degrees F). 12 hours later, the temp had dropped to 115 degrees F. Still hot enough to drink. I probably wouldn’t want to serve it any cooler than that (especially if they will add milk), but this will give you an idea of how long it will stay hot in the cambros.
Here are a couple of more tips…
* If you purge the cambros first, by filling them with hot water and leaving it sit in there for awhile before adding the coffee… you will get a longer hold time.
* If you wrap blankets around them, or buy the insulated covers for them, you will also get longer hold times.
Awesome tips Steve!!!
Seems like brewing regular coffee grounds would be a pain, particularly on a small cart. What about instant coffee packets? Also, how would you heat the water for hot powered beverages? Can you just do it on the steam table by some fashion, or do you need additional equipment?
Josh,
I saved the second part of your question for an article of it’s own. Look for it on Jan 5.
-Steve
What’s up people!! selling hot beverages coffee’ tea or hot chocolate. I have been pondering this idea for the past year. and I would be very interested to hear other peoples suggestions regarding a cost efficient way to deliver these products to my customers.
my first thought was a commercial propane coffee brewer. they are available but at a minimum cost of $500. I do not have that kind of money at the present time to invest into my business. at least until I’m finished paying off my hotdog cart. I opted to buy a large container which is designed to keep beverages hot. not sure exactly what it’s called. but I’m sure you have all seen them. they are usually brown in color and rectangular shaped. the top lid is removable for cleaning and it has a dispenser tap on the side. I used this twice. once for a chocolate and just recently for coffee. while the container to keep my beverage warm for two or three hours it just wasn’t the same as a piping hot beverage. especially on the cold chilly day outside. the container cost me around $100
option # 2: was to hook up an additional cast-iron side burner and use a coffee percolator to make coffee and a tea kettle to boil water. another perk for having this is you can also use it for a frying pan or a flat griddle . for cooking other things. I saw these units on eBay for around 50 bucks for a double burner with cast-iron feet. you can either hook it up to your existing propane tank or carry around a spare.
option # 3: Small electric generator. they’re not cheap but if you are fortunate enough to have access to one problem solved. electric coffeemakers are relatively cheap. you would not have to run the generator long just enough to make the coffee. and then you can use a small craft to keep it warm for about an hour.
option #4: I haven’t tried this one but I thought about it. use a power inverter on your vehicle to power a small electric coffeemaker of course this would only be good if you have the luxury of keeping your vehicle close by your hotdog cart. and you would also need one large enough to power a coffee maker.
option #5: I have been reading online and you can now buy a automatic drip coffee maker that runs off of small propane cylinders and batteries.I have not tried one of these either and they’re not cheap. Coleman makes one and there is another company which I don’t remember the name. but it will cost you between 150 and 200 dollars.
option # 6: Have not tried this one either but had been giving it some serious thought. was thinking about installing in line water filter to the input of my propane water heater. and using my fresh water tank for making hot beverages. my water heater brings the temperature up 130° in seconds. and I personally used it to make hot chocolate for myself. I thought it tasted fine. I am not 100% certain if this is acceptable in the retail market. I figured if the water is filtered and use a separate tap it shouldn’t be a problem. and as far as making coffee. as long as you’re piping hot water you can either use a coffee press which I hear makes excellent tasting coffee. or they do sell a coffee drip pot. it’s sort of similar to an automatic drip with at the hot plate in the water pump.
If anyone out there has a reasonably priced alternative that I have not considered please let me know. I think that I will go with the generator option myself. I already own a small generator. and I’ve been reading up on how I can install a small car muffler to it to make it super quiet. I also have the luxury of keeping my vehicle close to my hot dog stand. so I feel this will be my cheapest option.
Hey Charlie
I had one opportunity to sell hot drinks, before we froze up and had to shut down for the winter. I rented a 100 cup coffee maker and large thermos type serving containers. I used four cups of coffee for the 100 cup unit and similar for the hot chocolate mix. The coffee went too slowly and turned into sludge, and the hot chocolate, which I thought was fantastic had to be brought home after the event. I found the whole experience disappointing and would not sell hot drinks again unless I was set up with electricity and could make smaller fresher batches.
I have considered a Mexican coffee, and cider, as they can sit a little longer but will need to try that next year.
Charlie
I rented the coffee urn and spigotted thermos from ” GOOD TIME PARTY RENTALS” for approximately $20 a piece. ( Canadian)
I use the pump thermos offered by GFS it will hold coffee hot for about 6 hrs, good luck
Steve,
You are once again right on the money. This time of year coffee and other hot drinks are a must have here in the northeast. (N.H. It is snowing here as i write this) On my cart I have a 6000 watt converter which allows me to use an elec stainless coffee maker with a bouble pot set-up. In the morning during my busy coffee hours. I keep three insulated pump coffe disspensers full to speed things up. One for a breakfest blend, one for my own house blend and one for hot coco. I also offer all the flavored creamers you can think of. it all sits on it’s own table next to my cart. Most people 98% of them fix there own. Most are very neat and clean as they do. I love doing breakfest it is a big part of my bottom line. I am building a new bigger cart that will really be great for my coffee part of dogging it’s an 8 footer. Can’t wait. So yes, If you can serve hot drinks…… Go for it. There are many ways to brew coffee off site and keep it hot by means of cambros and insulated containers. The web is a great place to start. Good luck and always use great beans.
Steve I use airpots, you can purchase them from the local Sams Club for under $20.00 each, prepare your pots of coffee beforehand and you are ready to go, we also carry a couple filled with just hot water and use hot cocoa, customers love it, I sometimes carry along a 2000 watt Honda generator to run a Bunn two pot coffee maker, but it pretty well takes the generator for the coffee maker and can/t use any other electrical products, coffee makers use a lot of watts. The airpots work best.
I use an airpot that I got from Sam’s Club and use the coffee bags, like the Lipton tea bags. The airpot keeps the water hot for up to 8 hrs.
I had many requests for hot drinks and acted on those requests. I use 2- 40 cup coffee pots to heat water (about 2 gallons each). If power is not available at my venue, I use a quiet generator.
I sell coffee (Folgers packets), hot chocolate, and soup in a cup(just add water). All of them cost less than $.20 and I sell em each for a buck.
Good luck
Only thing we’ve seen is a a camper-propane coffee maker. Since it’s not commercial grade, we can’t use it in our state… but some other states have less restrictions. Other idea we had was to just get a Starbucks or DunkinD box of coffee and bring with us. Haven’t tried either yet.
I’d like to see more on the Moto Cart and to do it myself.
Hi Steve;
We sell hot chocolate from our hot dog cart. We use an Air Pot to keep the water piping hot (it will hold the water hot for HOURS!!!). When a customer purchases a hot chocolate, we hand them 2 packets of swiss miss, an 8 oz. styrofoam cup and a stir stick and let them put the water in and make their hot chocolate (In Maricopa county AZ, we are prohibited from assembling anything but hot dogs and this includes drinks according to my HD inspector).
Hey Steve…just finished a venue and we went through 20+ gallons of hot chocolate in 2 and a half hours. We used cambro beverage containers. Got them hot with coiling water and then made our hot cocoa in it… worked great. hope this helps…Gary D
I anticipated this from the getgo. After receiving Steve’s plans I incorporated what used to be a side burner off a BBQ grill (cost $0.00). I use a 36 cup enamel pot and sell “cowboy” coffee. The “Starbuckers” will give you that look but use a good grade of coffee and it’s great. The burner also boils dogs and converts to a mini grill giving them a char marks. If you’d like to see pics hit Steve up for my email.
Hank, send me those pics and I’ll add them to this post. Thanks man!
-Steve
I would love to see the cowboy coffee set up you have in pics
Thanks
Over the past years I have tried and used a number of methods. Coffee above all else must be hot and it must be fresh, so there are a few methods which work. A 3 to 5 gal. Cambro insulated beverage container is my favorite. It is durable and holds liquids hot all day or night. I boil purified water and then do a per cup pour-over on site. Another way is to make coffee before going out and use the airport on top of your cart or side table. You must also provide all the condiments as well. Just a coffee cart alone will provide you income! Good luck.
Hi.
I am a seasonal Hot Dog guy up here in Mass.(April – November) and just picked up a Keurig machine.
I know my clients will like the single cup brew selection, knowing that they can see their cup will be brewed on demand.
Plus, in the colder months, I get to use this at home!
I do like the fact that coffee will be offered at my stand.
Cheers!
Erik
What do you use for water supply for the Keureg? How often do you have to fill the tank?
You could use those pressure pots (don’t know if that’s the coorect name) that restuarants use to serve different coffees. They have a button you press to serve. They’ll keep beverages hot for hours.
I have been selling hot cocoa, as i dont feel like having to keep track of sugar, creamer, stir straws and such in the oklahoma wind. But you can buy beverage containers from carlisle, or even igloo sells a 5 gallon thermos that will keep hot drinks hot for about 5 or 6 hours. I took an igloo cooler/thermos 5 gallons out on black friday to best buy, we do not pre mix our cocoa, just have the swiss miss packets, and the water was steaming hot for abou 4 hours, and hot/warm for another 2 hours. plenty of time, of course we ran out of cocoa before the water had a chance to get cold. 5 gallons is around 40 to 50 cups at 1 dollar apiece.
We had a C-Store; and dispensed coffee in the air pots and (+/- 20 oz) thermos type dispensers. Kept the product quite warm and fresh. Simply brew and transfer to thermos. If brewing is a problem (no hydro), there is a propane coffee brewer available. It is slower brewing than an electric; but does the job. Unsure the brand / name (check google). The customer then dispenses their own product. Same idea for hot water for teas (and, unsure how you plan on selling your cider; pre brewed or crystals, you simply add hot water too). Also, don’t forget hot chocolate and a cafe-mocho mix. Only minor down fall of the thermos option; the coffee dries out the gaskets and o rings (in the dispensing mechanism), therefore every 4 – 6 months you must disassemble that part of the equipment, lubricate with food grade grease and reassemble. After a while you can to each thermos in about 15 minutes.
I also use airpots. I use the 3L stainless steel ones and they work great! They keep the coffee (which I brew at home) and the hot water for the hot cocoa hot in extreme cold temperatures!
Just had a winter festival where I set up in 17 degree weather (with a wind chill of about minus 17!! LOL!) for 4 hours and the airpots kept everything HOT! HOT! HOT! Success!
Few extra pointers, soup packets are a great idea, as soon as your coffee is brewed, dispose of “used” grinds and transfer your coffee to a thermos (used grounds and sitting on a burner; warming, will taint or burn your coffee), use premium coffee and fresh water, flavoured creamers are another great idea, also consider maple syrup (very popular here in CANADA) and honey (as a substitute for traditional sugar), also lactose free milk and creamer options. And, encourage your customers to use their own travel mugs. The most expensive part of most hot drink options, are the cup and lid. Good Luck; who would’ve though hot dogs would be a breakfast food? 🙂
Wow, such great ideas today! This is what I’ve been considering; you can rent them for about $25 a day, or buy one for under $100.
Five gallons is a lot of coffee/chocolate.
webstaurantstore.com/carlisle
I gave a lot of thought into selling coffee at the startup of my cart. bought the 100 cup maker and a 11 gallon combro. My first outing (cool weather) I sold two cups the second time around a three day event I sold one cup (in three days). I now have a 100 cup coffee maker and a 11 gallon cambro sitting safe and sound to go with the cart when I sell the cart in my old age.
I would like to add that the cambro that I bought was well worth the price. Two days later when i got around to draining the cambro the coffee was still at 90 degrees!!
Hey dogs on the run,
read your post and it is all relative. I am searching for a commercial dispenser that will keep hot chocolate (that we make from the cacao bean) hot OUTSIDE. You said two days later your coffee was 90 degrees. Was the Cambro inside or sitting outside? Also, what was the temperature at the time (outside of the container)? I purchased a insulated Cambro and I was disappointed. While it held plenty of liquid, the liquid was only able to stay hot/warm for a couple of hours. I am looking for a dispenser that can hold liquid (at least 5 gallons) and KEEP its contents hot/warm for at least 5 hours. Perhaps I will have to settle for the Airpots with less capacity. Anyone else have any solutions?
Cheers.
I use a side burner and a good old fashioned camp style perculator. I also have a second pot that I use with just hot water and have swiss miss instant cocoa packets.
coleman.com
COFFEE i am in the process of rebuilding a steamer style cart to griddle 24″ and a full bun steamer with half size steamer also for chili & kraut with a 13 gal freshwater & 26 gal gray water tank so i can use a manual pourover cecilware 3 gal.gas urn with a hot water tap.IAM A COFFEE REPAIR TECH this is the only way to do coffee right you can make as much at a time as needed so your product is fresh coffee is best served within 1 hour .also all the hot water you need for coco, teas ,soups, oatmeal et any ???? email me rogerb137@aol.com a urn is l.p. and s.s. and FRESH PRODUCT and volume quick how about selling a thermous full at a time of FRESH coffee.use it in summer to brew fresh ice tea. good luck email if you have any questions ROGER
I sell coffee when it is real cold but only because I wanted to have some for myself and people started asking me for a cup. Bingo $1.00 per cup..
I also use a commercial, Nuovo Simonelli espresso machine which I run off a Honda 2000 ie genset. Water plumbs from a water bottle and machine drains to a 12 gal RV grey water tank. All this is on board a scooter!
Thanks, I’m just begining and your shared experiences I’m sure will shorten my learning courve. Special thanks for those who share their websites!
Hmm, I’ll have to check, but I don’t think I’m allowed to have an exposed flame on an open cart where I’m at. I figure I can do decent business in hot drinks during Ohio winters, but as I’m trying to be a hot dog man and not a barista, I doubt I’ll invest in dedicated coffee making equipment. My plan is to get one of those big Cambros mentioned earlier to keep in the van along with one or two of those airpots for ready access. I’ll stock up on single serve packets of Taster’s Choice, Swiss Miss, and that tasty apple cider mix they have at Walmart. This way I will have the ability to serve hot drinks on demand without have to throw gobs of unused beverage away if sales tank, or deal with “sludge”, which sounds like a royal pain in the watoosie. Additionally, I will have a source of hot water available for cleaning or what-not to replace the water I won’t have after winter-proofing my cart. I think I can close the book on this part of the planning phase. Thanks for all the great ideas guys!
Oh, almost forgot! You guys who have mentioned offering dry soup packets, This is something I’ve considered as well. Could you tell me what kind you use and where you get it from please?
I am a coffee addict. theres allot of us. if you want to go for us you will have to have fresh brewed qaulity coffee. if its hot an fresh, for us price point really doesnt make a big difference
I got an old trick (if you are going to have “standing” coffee ) that takes the bitterness away. For each cup add one (1) grain of salt for every hour it sits. Example: 10 cups of brewed coffee sitting for 4 hours takes 40 grains of salt. Dont ask me me how/why it works, but it does! I was a doubter too !! try it before you shoot me down !!
If you make really strong coffee you can make some good extra money by offering Latte’s. I get $3.00
To make a 16 oz. Vinilla Latte’ mix:
12 oz STRONG coffee
3 oz hot milk
1 oz vinilla coffee creamer
(ADD A SHOT OF CHOCOLATE AND YOU HAVE A MOCA !)
I swear with practice it can taste as good as a Starbucks. To save on creamer cost I use Walmarts brand thats half the price of International Delight and is just as good.
OOOPS>>>>>
I for got the sweetner in the Latte’. i add 2 packets Sweet an Low Brand sweetner. Much cheaper and more efficient than adding the 4 to 5 teaspoons of real sugar it takes to get the same flavor.
And, if you cant have the super strong coffee made, you can add a high qaulity instant coffee. (the best is a half a packet of StarbucksVia, but cost is big)
Sometimes ask myself Who am I?
What am I ?
Where am I ?
and who is my customer?
I can serve dogs and sausages better than mosth starbucks, dunkin. Mc D’s….etc
I can also pack easier without the hot beverages
joe
My customers want coffee. I must make the customers happy while I take their money. I have a cart in a heavily trucked area and will cash in on $1 coffee and $1 roll and butter. $2 for $.50 is 300% profit. If I sell 100 per day I make $150. Now add the hot dogs and Yoo-hoo on the backswing and maybe a chocolate donut and I gotta $300 Day. 8 hours out per day 5 days a week gives me a $1500 week. For dogs,coffee,rolls and butter and Yoo-Hoo I could have skipped college. Cash is King!
I should have skipped college, lol.
where can i get a cushman cart like that????
Cushman Company. They sell police ticket carts also.
Those are so cool.
Hi Steve,
Can I have DeGrande’s Cafe phone # or email???
Need to ask about his hot chocolate.
Thanks,
I DON’T SERVE HOT BEVERAGES FROM MY HOT DOG CART ,BUT DO ON MY CONCESSION TRAILER. I USE A INSINKERATOR HOT WATER DISPENSER FOR PIPING HOT WATER (190*) FOR HOT CHOCOLATE. AND A 30 CUP COFFEE POT FOR COFFEE. THE HOT WATER DISPENSER IS PLUMBED INTO MY WATER SYSTEM AND IS FILTERED. THIS COULD BE USED ON A HOT DOG CART AS ONLY THE SPIGOT PORTION IS VISIBLE ABOVE THE TOP. IT DOES ,HOWEVER, REQUIRE ELECTRIC. IT IS RATED AT 60 CUPS PER HOUR AND REQUIRES ABOUT 800 WATTS. SO A SMALL GENERATOR OR INVERTER SET UP WOULD BE NEEDED. HARBOR FREIGHT HAS A SMALL 800 WATT GENERATOR THAT IS FREQUENTLY ON SALE FOR 89.00. JUST AN IDEA. BUT IT WOULD ONLY RUN THE DISPENSER. INSTANT COFFEE COULD BE USED INSTEAD OF THE COFFEE POT THOUGH.
I’ll throw my 2 cents in with the guys getting Airpots from Sams. They are cheap, work well and can be expanded if you have that much demand.
We were selling outside in Winter and had the same mixed reaction. Some days Coffee will sell other days its a dud.
For Hot chocolate I’d go with hot water in the airpot and use instant. That way if you have demand its quick and easy and if not you can hold for another day.
I’d try cider the same way, from the packet. I realize custom made chocolate and cider would be better but, until you get a feel for what the market really is, I’d go with the instant.
On the coffee I would not use instant. Real Coffee drinkers want good coffee.
I love seeing everyones input. Merry Christmas
i ‘ll been look for a cart like that where did you get a cart like that
I’ve done it pretty simply for 3 years now. I have no “power” in most of my setups, so I just heat a tea kettle on my propane burner, fill up a couple of Thermos brand carafes, and mix the hot water with dry mixes of Cider, Cocoa, Big Train or similar brand Latte mixes(Caramel,Mocha, vanilla, Chai, etc.) into Solo hot cups. Repeat as needed. when busy on drinks on cold days (I work year round and outside in Washington,) I pre-fill the most requested drinks with powder. A shot of whip cream, $2.00 later, and everyones happy.
I’m gonna go with the home electric brewer and Airport pots for now. I can always use them for family functions as well. They will afford me a good guage on how much and how fast I will sell coffee. Once I get the demand figured out I can upgrade to accommodate the same. I will also be able to figure out my food cost percentage and price my product accordingly. making coffee and holding it is a labor of love and commands a just reward. Coffee prices have jumped in price recently as demand is high and production is limited. Start small, get the feel and develop it. Coffee freeks don’t mind the price if the product is good.
Good advice Frank. I always try to start small and gauge customer reaction before investing heavily in a new offering. Thanks!
Looking for a high quality machine to produce high quality coffee at a high return.Btw im a mobile vendor with large van
I’ve been looking for something to keep coffee hot for hours outdoors. The cambros work great for about a couple hours but by the 3rd/4th hour, much of the heat has dissipated. There MUST be an option out there for a larger capacity than the airpots (which work great, but you need so many). I read this thread and seems like nobody has really found something that will keep it piping hot as you sell and less liquid in the container. I’ll keep checking back.
Anyone have a solution to this?
I have a Cecil pour over, but have no clue on how to operate it! Can anyone help me out? It is a twin system, one for coffee and one for hot water.
Thanks
Bobby’s Hot Dogs
Propane Coffee Maker!!! I am happy to make one for anyone who would like one. The other idea is an espresso machine. They all ready come propane powered. Larger sales but a little more now how is needed.
No electricity on the cart so I bought a broken POUR OVER Bunn Brewer on ebay for 9.99. I heat the water on my burner and then pour it into the machine making 8 cups at a time. When it finishes brewing, in less than 1 minute I pour the coffee into an air pot. This way Coffee is brewed fresh in small quantities. You could pick up a coffee brewer in any thrift store for a few dollars.
Great tip! Thanks for sharing that.
Hi
I want to contribute to this…in the U.K ylu can buy a whole range of what are called “incup”…basically its a branded coffee, tea, soup, hot chocolate drink….in the bottom of the cup are the sealed ingredients…so they are stackable…all.ylu need to do is take the seal of pour on hot wate and youve got your famous brand drink….so you dont need to pre make coffee and keep.it hot all you need is a gas water urn/heater and you can offer a while range of drinks…you must have them in the states..
I have never seen these in the states Stuart. Here is a link for those wanting to dig into this a bit further…
http://incupdrinks.net/
We used to do industrial auctions and almost always had electricity so we just used a 12 cup pour over coffee brewer. Sold it fast enough that it never got bitter. We did do one gig (Jr. touch football league) which started at 10 am. We knew we wanted to sell coffee and hot chocolate. No electricity available so I had two insulated coffee carafes. Heated our water in a large stock pot on a turkey fryer base. When water was hot (boiling) poured it into a yellow insulated beverage cooler. I had figured out how much instant (Taster’s Choice) coffee was needed per carafe (made it a little stronger than recipe called for) and put it into individual plastic baggies (freezer, not storage).. I filled the carafe about 1/2 way with hot water, added the premeasured instant coffee, sloshed it around a few times and added hot water to the fill line. I got bulk hot chocolate and hot cocoa mix (blended it 50/50) from GFS. Measured the mix into right proportions for carafes and also sealed it in plastic baggies. Mixed it up same as the coffee. The coffee wasn’t good enough for coffee enthusiats but it went over OK with folks that just need their cup of coffee for energy or warmth. The kids loved the hot chocolate. By mixing the two mixes together it was richer than just hot cocoa and was very reasonable. The only coffee or hot chocolate I had to throw away was what was left in each of the carafes at the end of the day.
Thanks for the detailed instructions. This is sure to help some slingers!
One inexpensive way to serve coffee is to take a large pot make your coffee the night before then the next day place your pot on your steamer burner and serve it with a soup ladle this is a very cheap way to serve coffee.
Mark the dog slinger ” Have Buns Will Travel”
Great tip Mark!
For coffee lovers, there is a 3-4 hrs limit to avoid the oils from the beans to make coffee bitter. I love tea and there is a market for a wide range of unusual teas that can be bought in large quantity tea bags. Easier too!