Hi Steve,
I finally got into the business! I’m very excited to get started.
I am going to negotiate a great location this weekend with a property owner. This spot has everything I could want, busy road, big parking lot, highly visible, and there is no other food establishment nearby.
This is an empty lot with no other businesses. Now, after reading your book I’m not quite sure how to respond if the property owner asks what would be in it for him if he lets me use the land. I can’t offer more traffic, or advertising in lieu of paying rent. If he does ask me, my plan is to ask him how much he was thinking to see where he is at.
Should I counter offer with a percentage of my total monthly sales? If so how much? Or a flat monthly rate? If so how much? Or do you have any other ideas for this situation?
I appreciate your feedback. Thank you for the motivation to get my business up and running!
Brian Galella
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Hi Brian,
STOP!!! Don’t go offering to pay rent just yet.
Odds are that the property owner is a local business man who owns more than just the lot you want to set up on. Perhaps he owns one or more businesses in town that could use your promotional services.
If he doesn’t own any other businesses, ask if he is involved with any civic, charity, or youth activities. Offer to host a free hot dog day or fundraising event for his organization a couple times a year. It will make him look good in the eyes of the organization – and that carries a lot of weight.
In the unlikely event that he doesn’t own any other businesses or belong to any organizations, start the negotiation by simply offering him a free lunch whenever he wants. Use the following tactic for best results…
Set up your meeting for 11:30 am if possible. You may be surprised by how far free meals go in a negotiation when the other side is starving. I’m totally serious about this. If you’ve ever gone grocery shopping on an empty stomach then you know what a powerful force hunger can be on the decision making process.
You may find yourself with permission to set up for the cost of a couple of hot dogs a week.
If all else fails and you do end up talking about rent, don’t pay a percentage of sales. I never want the landlord knowing how much I make. Go for a flat rate.
How ’bout it slingers? What would you do? Chime in!
-Steve
I can’t agree more that’s perfect advice home!
Steve is correct, never offer to pay unless they ask. I have a “free” spot outside of university of oklahoma football games that i pay nothign for, all i did was offer to have a free picnic for the church or fundraiser once a year. I only get 6 games out of it, but at 800 to 1000 a game its worth the spot. However the church accepted my offer, but after 3 years has yet to actually take me up on it. On the other hand when i do games for the local NBA team i have to give them a % of sales less tax, same with the new concert venue in town. However there are so many people at these events 10k plus, and being as i have exclusive selling rights ( i dont have to compete with anyone) and there are no other food or drink allowed , its well worth the % that i pay. Steve and I have discussed the nightly income from these events. These are “one off events” so to speak, even though i do 4 concerts a month, i wouldnt consider it a steady day to day location. It stinks to make 10k and have to give 4 of it away for your spot, but thats how it can work for these special events, for a regular day to day location, i would offer the minimum amount.
Right on Beau.
Agree!!! With every bit of Steve’s advice;)
I have used Steve’s Advice to take our only local slinger from serving $1.50 dogs to $3.00+ (NATHANS) Dogs.
I think that’s just an Indiana service but very interesting. You’re blinding me with science Bernie.
Do a trial run before negotiating anything. I have been on great lots on busy highways with 4 food trucks around me and we all did 0 sales. Figure out your potential sales average for the week then you can negotiate. Try you best to avoid fees but try to use “perceived value” such as steve mentioned giving away hot dogs or even promoting his business on your cart. If you have to I say try to keep your fees under 10%. If your sales are low and fluctuate do a percentage. If your sales are high stick to a flat rate but keep it under well under 10% of sales. Good luck
Good points Andy. I forgot to mention -try to get a month to month agreement if you do end up paying rent. At the very minimum insist on a one month trial so you test the waters as Andy so astutely pointed out.
Absoultly I agree with you Steve, the power of a free lunch. Good luck,and sell some dogs. Blessings
As an 8 year hot dog salesman, I can say you are on the right path to hot dog profits. I like the fact the parking lot is no where near where some one besides the owner can tell you yes or no. To make a long story short, where I sold hot dogs for over three years by a tavern (and yes with tavern owners permission) Ive been rudely shoved out by friends of a pizza place that opened up two doors down. Local politics can be nasty, as far as territory. Right now though the pizza shop is hurting because this hot dog guy is so well loved. Local people know that the pizza place did the dirty work. I understand by my hot dog co partner Bernie, I’ve all kind of hits on my website asking where Ive been. Pizza place opened up a real can of hot dog whupass when they shoved me aside. This is how much I really really believe in each and every hot dog I sell. Next hot dog goal is by the biggest factory in Peru selling hot dogs on Columbus Day! Keep up the good hot dog sales, and don’t ever lose track of your hot dog dream, it will carry you a long hot doggy way!
Gary Aka Gary The Hot Dog Man!
Great story and greater attitude Gary. You will come out on top!
I reply the same to each person that asks when Gary and I will be back at the Bar’s “When they pay us rent!” We are moving forward they just gave us the push we need and we are looking forward not back!
I believe Steve that is already well said…perfect advise
Empty lots can be tough! You now have to think about renting a porta-potty too! I used to work only festivals, and you know how costly the spaces can be. I am now set up daily in a parking lot of a very busy produce market thats open year round, in a town that does not have and fast food available. I pay a flat monthly rent that we both agreed on. Its way cheaper than the festival fees I was paying! I also get to use their restroom. And I buy my onions & tomatoes there too!
Sounds like a winner Arlene – good for you!
Send me some pictures!!!
A ports potty. Sometimes I don’t get the rest of u hot dog people. I have made roughly 5000.00 dollars in the last two weeks. Without a PP.
I have always been a bit of a renegade. I’m on my third year of slinging and I’ve got an awesome spot for free. It’s right across the street from City Hall, The County Clerk’s Office and The Courts. On the other side of the street is a major healthcare provider with a parking lot the size of Texas. City Hall would not let me set up on their property so I went across the street to the healthcare guys. I knew that there was only one restaurant within walking distance (a Chinese buffet) and they were probably tired of that. I went into their building on a Saturday afternoon and simply told the folks on duty that I would be setting up on the grass between them and City Hall. I left a few flyers and never looked back. That following Monday morning, my wife and I simply set up shop. Of course, the city inspectors came over but we had all they required; licenses, permits, etc. In fact, we even got some business from City Hall that first day. We are thankful for the location and the folks are glad to have an alternative. Sometimes I think you just have to ‘bulldoze’ your way into a decent location; especially if your heart is in the right place and there definitely is a need for alternative food choices.
I love it Papa. I agree. You definitely get further by showing some initiative and bulldozing ahead. If you are violating some local codes, the worst they can do is tell you to stop. But odds are that no one will care as long as you are friendly and providing a delicious product that everyone wants. Good for you!
It all sounds great, but I have one question. If there are no other food establishments around you, how are you going to pull people in off the familiar food track? They know where the food already is (and isn’t) and it could take time for them to get to know you are there. I think you’ll need a good advertising plan.
Steve, your thoughts on that? It’s similar to my situation, but once the beach opened on my first year word of mouth took over, but it sounds like he doesn’t even have that yet, and that could take a while. What’s around? Offices? Construction? Main road?
Put out sign up and down the road. See the above comment for details.
Unfortunately, Steve,
This town won’t let me put up any signs other than “on site.” So I can’t even put them down the road to say, “Hot dogs ahead.” And even after 4 years slinging, I still get people who say they didn’t know I was here and they drive by all the time. Even with a 4 way stop (which no one ever stops for) people don’t always notice me. But everyone that does comes back for seconds! 🙂
Have your brother walk down the road 300 yards and hold a sign. That’s what they do around here to get around the sign ordinances. The local Jiffy Lube pays 2 guys to stand on the shoulder and wave their signs. If they are paying for it, it must work.
HA HA! Thanks for trying, Steve, but I can’t even get him to walk to the mailbox! 🙂
That’s funny!
Keep in mind that sometimes a busy rd don’t mean great location. Some times it quite the opposite. Typically if the speed limit is over 35mph I personally would not take it. And for a good reason. Cars on busy reds are going so fast that no matter what they won’t see your cart. I have a few carts now I built them all Metal 🙂 and I had one on a busy rd 45mph it was a corner stoplight to .. The little business I did do their they all said we pass here every day and never knew you were here!!! My cart is safety yellow and safety red I have huge umbrellas as well as an easy up 10×10 tent I set up foe tables I hang bright banners from it as well yet people were just to busy or going to fast that’s why they call it a busy rd!! Now I can be a gold mine and having no other food places to me is no good ..I feed off other restaurants and sub shacks ect. People like variety so other food places are important.
Good luck don’t give up it takes time I made $12 my first day dogging now well lets just say I do a lot of fishing in evenings.
I did well in a parking lot off a state highway. We put signs out 300 yards down the road on both sides so folks could slow down in time to turn in.
As a man that has a knack for setting up in unusual places (aka – train stations, laundry mats, rest stops and such) I think I would negotiate the meal or move. Never give up profits with a rent based area unless your really desperate. I am a firm believer that there is always a spot that can be benefited by having a comical hotdog man at it. Keep up the search and happy hunting
Andrew from Supa Hotdogs
How did the laundry mat work out. That’s awesome!
persistence is key, you have to just show up, people will either come or not, you said those that do , come back! Thats good, the worst thing you can do is move locations and not tell those people where your moving too, so if you do move let them know, spend the last week or so in your spot with flyers for your new spot. thats loyal customer base that you dont want to lose for sure. If people begin to know your in a spot, they will be more apt to keep coming, if its hit or miss, they dont want to go out of their way and you not be there.
Yes! Consistency is the secret sauce to anything you want to achieve.
How rare is it for a hot dog cart to do 100k in gross sales, excluding carts in nyc. Thank u 4 your responses
It’s not common but certainly achievable. You have to work your butt off. I know a guy who does it. He works six days a week from 11 to 4, then does gigs in the evenings three to four nights a week. All year round. Of course he slows down in winter due to weather but if it’s not a blizzard or raining he’s out there.
Does anybody out there charge 4 dollars for a nathans dog on their cart. Im presently at 3.50 meal deal 4.50
John I serve Sabretts on my cart. I get $2.75 for one w/catsup, mustard etc. But with chili & slaw ( im in the south) on it I charge $3.25 plus tax!
I do offer a combo meal, add a bag of chips & a can soda to hot dog purchase for $1.50 xtra! Makes the chili/slaw dog combo $5.07 w/tax!
If they want to they can have their 2nd dog for $2.25 after they buy the dog/combo meal!
Arlene
I would offer a percentage say 10% but have a cap if the fee is something you can’t afford? Any advice on that?
Whenever you rent on a percentage it introduces doubt into the working relationship. The landlord will always wonder if you are being honest. I would rather work on a flat fee so there is no doubt.