I just received a good question from a slinger who is in the start-up phase of his hot dog biz. I don’t pull any punches with my answer. Read on…
Steve,
I appreciate the way you answer your emails.
I live in Indiana and am pursuing licensing here. I also work a lot in Illinois and know of several good locations there. Do you know if a “safe food” certificate is accepted all over? Would I need separate licenses for both states? That would be costly for just starting out, not to mention the added time.
Thanks for your thoughts on this.
John
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Hi John,
You will need a separate license and health permit for each county you sell in. While this may at first glance seem counterproductive, I see it as a very good thing.
I would hate to see a national health code for several reasons…
1. Freedom of location. While a few counties do have tough restrictions and high fees, many more are still extremely reasonable to do business in both from a code and fee standpoint. We have wheels under our little restaurants and the freedom to easily travel to a county that is friendly to our industry if necessary.
2. Freedom from “code bloat”. If a national health code were implemented, history strongly suggests that any reasonable and intelligent local codes would be replaced by the typically bloated legislation favored by both aisles in our “modern” federal government system. We don’t need a 2500 page health code book.
3. Freedom from hidden taxation. Whenever the national government decides to regulate a private industry they see it as an opportunity to stick their hand in your pocket and take an ever bigger “cut”of your profits in the form of “fees”, making it exponentially harder for private business owners (you and I) to be successful.
4. Freedom. Period. I believe that local and states rights should supercede federal bullying as intended by our founding fathers. We are losing our American freedoms at an alarming rate to a federal system that is out of control and run by an elite political class who have exempted themselves from being bound by the same laws that they force you and I to live under.
Don’t tread on me. Or my local health department.
Rant over. Sell ’em all, slinger!
-Steve
P.S. Feel free to copy and share the Food Code Sovereignty flag at the top of this article (some slingers are even using it as their Facebook profile pic). That’s great, but you are not allowed to alter the image in any way.
In Ohio the permit from one county is good in all counties.
It is the same in South Carolina. One permit is good in all counties.
Thanks Randall.
Clarification – The health department permit is good in all counties. You still may have to comply with local permit issues. Some towns are not cart friendly. Some will welcome you with open arms and even waive permit fees!
Here in Missouri each county health department can create and enforce their own health codes although many have adopted the St. Louis county codes pretty much word for word.
In Pennsylvania, every county except Philadelphia and Allegheny use the state code. Then the inspection could be done by the county health dept, the state Dept of Ag or the city. This year I passed a few inspections for the different places I sat up shop. Yes each city usually charges for a permit and they have there own rules concerning placement and signs.
Good info Rich. Thanks.
Love the name of your cart!
I Illinois where I am located from my understanding is that the counties have to follow the state codes but, may make them stricter to what the health depts feel is right for their use. One thing I found out about the code when reading it is that the footwear is whatever OSHA says is needed for the job. Also. the no shirt,no shoes is not on the books, but started in the 60’s when the younger crowd were not wearing shoes/shirts into eating places so they put up the signs. No real law about that one!!
Sell em’ all
Jerry
Have happy holidays
Thanks Prof Jerry!
One of my favorite lines from Fast Times at Ridgemont High, “No shirt, no shoes, NO DICE!”
I would prefer to be some were down jacksonville florida or down south somewere, or even portland oregon. The goverment is not very lenient in northern pennsylvania.
Even if the codes are tougher in some places, there is always a way to make it work. You did it Dave – good for you!
A permit in my area almost covers the whole state except for 5 cities.
The permits are only around $100 for a whole year!
So if you think about that, that isn’t horrible. You setup 50 times in one year for that permit, that is only $2 each time. You setup nearly every day of the year, that isn’t even half a dollar a day.
That’s awesome Will. What state is that?
great answer Steve…..it would be like you say just another opportunity for the “chosen one” and his henchmen to rip us off (again)! Here in Washington it is county by county…if I cross the county line I would need approval/permit from adjacent county.
I’m of the opinion that the problem is equally to blame on both parties. Thanks for the info on Washington.
Thanks for the input!
Maybe I’ll get my feet wet in one state before moving over to the other. I hate contributing any more to the Illinois politicians though. That’s why I moved.
Looking forward to a Great Spring!
Here in California, it is county by county, some are street food friendly, and some are not. Each city has there own set of codes, some are friendly some are not. One city in my county will only let you set up on private property, you cannot not set up on a public street. What is real blessing is that California has a state provision that counties, and cities have to wave all permit, and license fees for honorable discharged veterans.
Your rant could not have said it any better! Way too much involvement by our government. My experience in Indiana is that you need approval county by county, but when I travel to neighboring counties they ask for a copy of my certification and approve it in the county I am requesting certification – but usually I am only asking for a temporary cert.
Okay here in Alabama I have a health certificate for one County and it’s good for the whole state of Alabama, however I have to notify the health department inspector of the county I’m going to be in and give them an opportunity to inspect my cart. I have sold in five different counties here in Alabama and each time I call I tell them that I have a 100 Health score from my health department and they say great don’t worry about it, so I’ve never had any problem from other health departments. I’m just having fun selling dogs.
Here in VA, your State Health Inspection covers you in the entire state, but some localities/cities require you to be inspected locally also (everyone wants a bite of your hotdogs profits.) Most localities it’s just a registration process with rubber stamp approval, others want to the full inspection process, which means more time, effort, and monetary process.
This year, the State has implemented an “event” inspection to be completed before any one-off events you may be involved with, but the good news is your annual state inspection covers that automatically.
I think it is great in our state, inspection requirements are beginning to be enforced, create an even playing field for everyone (keeps those who don’t know, or refuse to follow processes, to just come out and grill burgers orr hotdogs in an open setting with out any safe food handling procedures in place) I’ve seen setups with no handwash facility, servers handling morey and food with out washing hands or gloves between customers, etc….
I take pride in what I do (and all of should), follow the laws of registration, insurance, inspections, – so on that side, I’m glad some steps are being taken by the state health department to make things safe for everyone, but the dual processes (and fee’s by some localities) seems a bit much. Is why I’ve cut back a !ot on my setups outside my city.
Most county health departments in Indiana have a website, which is the first place I go when consider working an event. The online application or permit rate chart will tell you their county permit rate. They range from $75.00 a day to $9.00 a weekend, depending on the county. Most have a yearly temp permit, which is usually $100.00-$125.00, if you plan to work in that county regularly. My county has two yearly temp permits. Be sure and read the application carefully. In our county, one yearly temp requires a commissary and an inspection of it, and one does not. The latter just requires all food items be purchased from an approved source, and that they be removed from their original packaging at the serving location. And if you serve at more than one location at the same time, you must have a permit for each location. Since I do two farmers markets each Saturday, I have two yearly temp permits for my county. Serv-safe food handler permits are valid in all Indiana counties.
Here in Kentucky, we have a Statewide permit. It’s good everywhere!
in NJ,county by county health dept. permits,but have to PAY for each town
Here in CT codes vary not only from one county to another, but from one town to another. And worse, even from cart to cart! We, unfortunately, have a state income tax and so does NY. if I were to cross state lines it turns my income taxes into an expensive, confusing hassle. We need health permits from each town we want to work in besides and have to let them know if it’s going to be a regular thing or one time deal! CT is not known to be very friendly to small business.
Thanks Robin.
Along this line, how do traveling venders do it? I am thinking of those who follow the Fair circuit or travel with a carnival? Do they actually have to be certified in all states and counties they vend?
You can get a temporary vending permit in just about any U.S. County.
Steve,
Your position is a very good one and goes back to why the Declaration of Independence was almost NOT passed. Many states, especially in the south, saw it as the Federal government (newly created) taking control and it was not until Thomas Jefferson and his crew could include the Bill of Rights and assured the states they would retain all their rights (since been violated) that they had enough states on board to get it approved and signed. Since then, of course, the Federal government has done everything possible to not only take away states rights, but also citizens rights. maybe if there NO regulations on street vendors there would be less people on public welfare and government assistance programs. They would have the ability to go out and start their own business. Now, before someone gives me the obligatory lecture (spanking) about public health and safety, etc. think about what happens to a lousy restaurant even with board of health certificates – they go out of business. How long do you think a street food vendor would last if he got people sick. The industry would certainly police itself and the “bad vendors” would quickly go out of business and be replaced by people who wanted to provide a good, clean, safe eating experience. So I do go a step further and say that (as a Libertarian) they should have NO right to regulate us as free citizens!!!
I tasted the Libertarian flavor of your argument by sentence number four. 😉 I agree with 90 percent of your argument, however I think we do need a minimum of regulation to keep people from getting seriously sick before the “bad vendors” go under.
I think you are watching to much government is always bad news Steve. I have never heard anyone say they enjoy different regulations from place to place. I think it would be great to have one standard set of regulations to be able to travel in the winter.The FDA works, so do many government programs, of course there are always problems to be fixed with everything.
I respectfully and totally disagree Kirk. A national regulation would contain so many provisions that it would make it pretty much impossible for the little guy to comply. The FDA does a good job keeping us safe from harmful foods. It also makes it pretty much impossible for the little guy to start a food company. I challenge you to get approval to manufacture and sell your own hot dog chili without using a co-packer (who takes a big chunk of the profits).
Here in New York each health department has there own fees for food inspections and every county charges 200.00 a year and every county has there own vending permits cross over and the fines are hefty but as long as you have food inspection certificate for the one that county you have no vender permits you can still private events and festivals and pay there vender fee forgoing a second county’s vender permit.
I do events in other states they all have temporary events liscence unless the promoter of the event has it included in the vendor fee but if you are doing it every day you pay more