The vast majority of towns in the United States are quite friendly to mobile food vending. But every once in a while we encounter a bit of resistance. Hey, it wouldn’t be a real business without some red tape. đ Here’s how to cut through it.
Hot Dog Cart News reader Kim G. writes…
Dear Steve:
On Monday night, my city commission will meet to discuss potential street food laws, including whether to ban street vendors all together. Sounds to me that some of the permanent restaurant owners resent us coming in with low over head and making a buck.
I would like to attend the meeting and be able to give some supporting evidence as to the benefits that street vendors bring to the community and local economy.
Could you direct me to any noteworthy studies or reports to this claim?
Thank you,
Kim
****************************
Hey Kim,
Unreasonable fear. Permanent location restaurants sometimes get freaked out when they see a food cart on the street in their town. They think that we are “unfair competition” because our overhead is so low. In reality that argument doesn’t hold water. Overhead is irrelevant to the customer. They don’t know or care what our overhead is. All they care about is that the food is good and the price is fair.
Comparable prices. A professional food cart operator sells their products at comparable (or even higher) price points than the sit down restaurant. The playing field is actually quite level.
Besides, when did it become acceptable for one business to ask city council to ban another business just because the other business is more profitable? I’m sorry but what a load of horse crap. Sounds like cry baby tactics at the least, socialism at the worst. I don’t like either one and I’ll vote against any city council member that goes along with it.
Growth opportunities for all. Portland Oregon rejuvenated their downtown as a result of embracing food carts. The public loves it and the carts are a huge draw, bringing people to the downtown who wouldn’t be there otherwise.
The local brick and mortar restaurants benefited as much as anyone. More people coming to any geographical area always equates to more sales for all of the establishments within that area.
How to get the restaurants to side with you. If you meet resistance from the restaurants, here is a great response. Tell them that the brick and mortar restaurants in Portland have started using food carts to expand their business and spread the word about their sit down establishment with great success. Food carts have allowed these restaurants to have a branded presence that reaches areas far beyond the block they live on. Tell them that if the city bans food carts then this opportunity will be closed to them as well.
This approach shows them that restaurants can directly benefit from utilizing food carts of their own. It also shows them that you are not afraid of them competing with you on the street which fosters a “work together” atmosphere where both you and the restaurants win.
That’s the winning pitch. Let me know how it goes!
-Steve
Important Note: There is so much mis-information flying around about what is and what isnât allowed in any given state, county, city, etc. One of the most important pieces of advice that I can offer is DONâT listen to anyone but your local health inspector. Most of them recognize that their job is to make sure that food businesses donât make anyone sick. Thatâs it. They are severely overworked and donât have the time or inclination to enforce the more ridiculous parts of the food code that donât even have an effect on actual food safety.
I can’t tell you how many newbie customers of mine originally wrote me telling me that so and so was not allowed in their county, or that their town isn’t “hot dog cart friendly.” Three weeks later they tell me that they are up and running. It happens ALL THE TIME.
Nothing else matters except what YOUR inspector says, and many times what he or she says doesn’t follow your local food code to the letter.
Iâve started and run many businesses in many different industries and itâs always the same. There are always a group of losers that will delight in telling you that what you want to do is impossible. Nothing is impossible.
Talk to your inspector. Only your inspector. If you listen to everyone else, youâll be tempted to quit before you even get started and youâll miss out on the funnest business in the world.
Sadly, I live in a town that isn’t hot dog cart-friendly. I will have to move if I want to have a hot dog cart. Anybody know of any hot dog cart-friendly towns in Florida?
Florida in general is very cart friendly. There are probably more carts per capita in Florida than anywhere else, except maybe New York City.
Chris, the following is not aimed at you, your comment was a good one. I just need to get this out in the open…
My point in writing this article was not to open up a gripe session. There are other places to do that. My goal is to encourage everyone out there that if you want to do this – you can do this. If you encounter resistance, don’t take no for an answer. Do what you have to do to make it happen.
Once you get through the red tape, it acts as a barrier to entry for future competitors, most of whom are quitters who are used to giving up when they meet any resistance.
I’ve seen no’s turn into yes’s in this business again and again and again and again for newbie slingers who wanted it bad enough.
I’ve been running into this around Kansas City. Neighboring Lee’s Summit had a ban but a brick and mortar wanted to start operating a truck. Other B&M’s protested but the city council compromised by writing the ordinance where mobile vendors cannot operate within a certain distance of a B&M. They also put in a bunch of hoops that need to be jumped thropugh, but you can now do it. That speaks to Steven’s point that B&M’s have the same opportunity’s as pure mobilers to get out on the street. Perhaps you can find a B&M owner to take your side at the meeting and bring up how this restriction also impacts their opportunities!
“Perhaps you can find a B&M owner to take your side at the meeting and bring up how this restriction also impacts their opportunities!”
Great idea Mike. I love it!
Good advice, Steve, except for one very small detail. What if in getting the license to operate also includes passing a food handlers course, and the person teaching this course IS the Health Inspector and THAT inspector has said IN HER CLASS that there will “never be a hot dog cart in HER town?”
There are only two cities within a days drive of here, one is too small to have more than a few carts, but the other, Bullhead City Arizona, across the river from Laughlin, Nevada, has miles and miles of river front areas, both private and public land, and both a Lowe’s and Home Depot, but nary a food vendor in sight, none.
I’m thinking seriously of taking the course from this woman again, and recording that statement. But then, what could be done in a case like that?
Don’t go toe to toe with her. You need to finesse this one. Become friendly with her first. I mean genuine friends. You need to really get to know her and let her get to know you. Ask her opinion on things and really listen to her answers.
Once you know each other, ask her what it is about hot dog carts that she doesn’t like. Then you can present solutions to each of her objections in a non confrontational manner. Finally, stop by her office right before lunch with a couple of your finest hot dog creations and “buy her lunch”.
I’ve known you for a while now Skip, and you have a great way with people. You know what to do.
Hello,
I’m James and I reside at the moment in a little town named “___________” here in __.
I found out that you have to be the com owner in order to get a cart lisenced in the state. Now how do you work around that diddy?”
I have not heard that and I have a lot of customers there. I deleted your geographic info until I find out for sure.
One of the most important pieces of advice that I can offer is DON’T listen to anyone but your local health inspector. There is so much mis-information flying around about what is and what isn’t allowed in any given state. Most of it is baloney.
Even if there are codes on the books, it doesn’t mean your local inspector will enforce them. Most inspectors are rational people who recognize that their job is to make sure that food businesses don’t make anyone sick. That’s it. They are severely overworked and don’t have the time or inclination to enforce the more ridiculous parts of the food code that don’t even have an effect on actual food safety.
Talk to your local inspector. That’s the only info that applies to you. They have the power to grant variances if you present them with a logical alternative.
Go get ’em!
I just moved to San Antonio, Texas thinking this state would be more cart friendly, but that is not the case. I guess it’s that way any where you go and find Mega-food store chains. (Chilis, Applebees, est) We are a therate to this type of business, and they want to see the food carts go a way. Look whats happaning all over the country, with city passing laws banning food carts. Ft Collins, CO., rased the fee for food cart to a $100 a month because of the big food chain lobby. The only reason they did’t ban food carts altogether, is the democrats on the city board wouldn’t let that happen. Free enterprise is if you are a Mega-food chain. Unrestriked capitalisam, only if you have million dollar lobbist in Washington DC. The Republican are bought and paid for by the good food business that are thearend by the small food cart business. Be carful to whom you vote for, they talk a big line about free enterprise, but only if you can contribute to there campain to get re-elected, and if you are just a snale size hot dog cart, how much strock do you think you have fighting the mega-fast food lobby, and chain restaurant bobby?
We are not a threat to any business, we BRING business to other businesses. Being small is our biggest advantage. We can go anywhere, turn on a dime, change our business plan overnight. We can jab and move, jab and move.
Ever see black birds chase a hawk away that’s ten times their size? That’s us.
I know a dogger who was told no by his city. He didn’t give up, took his case to the city council and the local newspaper, and finally got permission. Now he’s making really good money and has a huge following around town.
Local businesses now call him and BEG him to set up in front of their establishments because he brings 200 – 300 people a day with him. That’s good for everyone.
Hi Guys,
In 15 yrs in a different roadside biz, we would run into this same city nonsense. I went to the City Council meeting and presented my case in a similar fashion that Steve suggests.
I also pointed out we pay taxes ( I had the 2 yrs receipts with me), and pay rent for the selling space. I employ local people, and am a Honorably discharged Vet. A Local Doctor chimed in that his wife sells Flowers and IF they passed any regulations , they need to tell Jewel and Dominicks Food Stores to take all the displayed stuff off the sidewalk out front and move everything inside or he would sue the daylights out of the city. He grew up there and everyone knew him.
Bottom line , just showing up, being dressed well and mannerly and communicating goes a long way. I’m sure you’ll do fine.
Ken In Florida and Chicago
Right on Ken.
Ok, guy and gals, I too own and operate a hotdog cart. I have a resturant on both sides of me at the end of the city block. I am in the middle. I have people stop by my cart and ask me if there is a good resturant or which one is the best. The people that own both resturants come to my cart and eat and I also eat at both resturants. The city that I have my cart in loves seeing me on TV, in the paper and on the street bringing attention to downtown. Yes we have business that are closed in downtown to include two resturants. I am required to have the same things that a brick and mortor resturant has to have; Serve Safe, Heath Inspections, business license, Tax ID numbers, insurance. I also buy products locally for my cart, bank at 3 of the local banks, buy my cars and trucks at the local “Ford” dealer, own a home here, pay city, county and state taxes. I ask why would they not want me to be here??? I do agree with Steve that there are more positives of having street vendors outways not having them. I do agree that cities, counties, and states should have rules for safety and health requirements but when you meet them equally you should be allowed to operate.
DUGGS DOGGS
GOOD!! GOOD!!
Good Good comment Michael. We are just as legitimate a business as any other. Like you said, we contribute to the community just as much as, if not more than, bigger businesses. We usually live where we work which means we care so much more, and are invested in the community so much more than say, the big gas station with headquarters in London.
P.S. Michael, admit it. Your good looks probably greased a lot of wheels on your way to the top.
It does help!! LOL
Hi Steve,
Below is the approach I used to turn no’s into yes’s. The letter opened up a conversation with the Mayor’s office that resulted in me being allowed to vend outside our courthouse and it has opened up other possibilities for other vendors. The downtown business alliance has set up a number of events that both brick and mortar as well as mobile vendors have benefitted from. I agree with you wholeheartedly that getting to really know your local health inspector and uncovering their considerations about mobile vending is the key to getting support to move forward. Not taking no for an answer and doing your homework with the city planning offices also helps!
Dear Mayor ________________ and City Council members.
This letter is to begin a conversation about sidewalk vending in _____________________. I am curious if you and the city council would consider conducting a 2 year pilot project regarding sidewalk vending. The pilot project could establish sidewalk vending E-Zones (employment zones) within the public zones in downtown area and in the parks?
This project would:
⢠encourage small business development and entrepreneurial endeavors that do not conflict with established businesses
⢠Provide affordable food service in areas that do not currently have any food service
⢠Provide active positive street use
⢠Encourage community development and interaction outside offices and within parks
⢠Enliven and transform the community landscape
⢠Increase the number of â watchful eyes on the streets and in the Parksâ (Sidewalk vendors were the 1st responders in the recent New York City bomb scare)
In the short term it would allow the city to assess the possibilities and problems associated with street vending and make decisions based on actual experience without rewriting code that might later need to be adjusted.
Many major cities have an abundance of sidewalk vendors (Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, and New York to name a few). In other cities sidewalk vendors add color and interest to the cityscape.
In _____________, sidewalk vending could be a way to increase employment and encourage small business development which in turn should add to the cityâs tax base. If there is concern about âgiftingâ space to vendors, they could pay a nominal annual/seasonal fee for accessing temporary E-zone locations. In fairness to food trucks one or two regular parking spaces could also be converted to E-Zone locations.
Attached are pictures of possible vending locations.
Thanks in advance for your time and consideration. I look forward to your reply.
Sincerely,
Marvelous, Mary Jayne. Simply marvelous. Thank you sooo much for sharing that!!!
Proof once again that Hot Dog Cart News has THE best readers in the dogosphere… You folks rock!
Mary Jayne
Are you able to please email me that mayer letter I am interested in useing it, Thank you mike with mikey G’s munchies
There used to be a vendor at Home Depot in Bullhead city. In fact they had three locations. Bull Head city, Lake Havasu City, and Kingman. I had met the owner while I was on business down there and she was doing well. This was a few years ago and I know she was selling the Kingman location, because of distance. I also visited her at the Lake Havasu Home Depot, and again she was doing well.
Thanks Larry,
I love hearing about those who are doing well, it really encourages all the slingers out there!
Thanks for ALL the information…Keep it up!
Will do Laura!
Hey guys,you can fight and win…… I have!!! Right now I put up $3000 to retain a permit the $3000 is refundable. it is for a vote in City hall where I am presenting the Excitement and personality my cart brings to the next town over…. As well as new people to frequent other restaurants in the area… I went trough a battle getting my cart approved in the strictest of county s in my state and now its up and running and im getting an approval for the new ALL METAL EzBUILT cart i just built all diamond plated aluminum not the roll on thick like a boat ….. đ keep up the good fight you can and will prevail ..happy doggin
Congratulations Tony!!! Woo hoo!
Send me some pics of your E-Z Built Hot Dog Cart. You have sparked my curiosity…
I could not disagree with you more steve start talking to the food joints and watch they will put 15 carts on the street to shut you down what would happen if mcdonalds got in the mix good by small guy i have learned to go to the city counsil then the health dept and get the rules changed so all have a chance do not let the money grabbers start into our world because we will loose on many levels good luck
I appreciate you Lou and love the fact that you are willing to do the hard work in city council to make your community better. I believe you will do great things in your business!
I think most brick and mortar restaurants will love the idea of spreading the word about their food through the use of a cart but they will never pursue it. Like most people, they have more ideas than the willingness to implement them. No one is going to put 15 carts on the street and McDonalds doesn’t want to be in the street food business. I think they know what they’re doing with their current business model. They’re just a little bit successful with it.
There are two ways to view the world. One way is to think that everything is scarce. The other way says things are abundant.
The scarcity mentality is concerned with scrimping and scraping and hunkering down, protecting your pittance because everyone is in fierce competition for what little there is.
The abundance mentality believes that there are limitless opportunities in the world and all you need to do is go out there and figure out how to tap into them.
Money is not scarce. Look about, it’s all around us. The vast quantities of it stagger the mind. All we need to do is figure out how to coax a miniscule fraction of it our way to be very well off indeed.
I have 2 permits in 2 towns . My main one in New Britain Connecticut no carts are allowed anywhere near downtown or near the court house . The 2nd permit in Berlin Connecticut you can not stay longer than 1 hour then you have to move your cart to another location .
Read Tim’s comment above for strategies on changing the status quo. Maybe you can be an agent of change in your community.
Tim, I live in Fort Collins, and I own a cart. My wife and I have gone to the city council meetings and have been involved in the decisions being made here. Collinites are passionate about food and about buying local. There are plenty of local restaurants that are here, including several that I have helped to start when they opened. I can assure you that there is no Big Food Lobby buying out the Republicans here. That’s silly. I have personally read the concerns local citizens raised about food carts, and some of them are legitimate, others are simply ill-informed, and it’s our job as prospective vendors to be salesmen and good citizens. We can help educate the city council, the health department, and the citizenry about how we can be an asset to the community. the main concerns that were raised were about the local businesses maintaining their competitiveness, safety concerns for pedestrians and vehicles, and how close carts and food trucks could be to neighborhoods. The city council recently had a very well presented open house on the issue, including several members of the council that were there to talk to people.
That is what has been happening here, and the city has been paying attention to what the people want. The laws were recently changed to be less restrictive and carts are popping up all over. All of this happened with civility, and open conversations where opinions were discussed.
Although carts have been around for a long time in a lot of places, the food truck/cart craze is a new phenomenon, and not every place is going to embrace us right away.
It’s better to not jump to cliched political conclusions and continue making divisions in our country, especially when we can be positive and change the way people think and get down to the fun and profit. Those who persist, and make allies are the ones who stand to make a killing here in Fort Collins.
What did we do when we couldn’t sell here? We became active in our city (never a bad thing!), and we sold hot dogs in 2 other surrounding cities! Never quit and always be looking for opportunity!
Very well said Tim. I wholeheartedly agree with your point about believing in political cliches. If you do, you’re already finished before you start. It’s impossible to achieve anything unless you honestly believe it first.
I’m happy to hear things are cooking right along for Fort Collins street vendors! Your perseverance is paying off. It’s an inspiration to us all!
Thanks for commenting!
The City of Portland has very limited control of food carts as most are on private property AND NOT SUBJECT to many of the laws and requirements of the brick and morter food service. PLUS the city [who use the Transportation Department??] as the governing body that oversees the food cart industry, has some very strange ideas of what is allowed or not. Steve; your easy build cart would not be allowed on the city sidewalk. The “rules” set to protect the business owner[s] from street vendors are applied here in the city with a vengence. Rule #1 you need to have a permit signed by the owner of the city block [if you can figure out who they are] If you are a building owner and have tennents that sell food; no one gets a permit. That’s why Portland have very very few “street legal sidewalk carts” especially hot dog carts.
Other “rules” include ‘Length of the tow hitch’ ‘size of the wheels’ and ‘removable brake lights’ and that’s before you even get to the health department rules.
I posted up in the city for about a week across from the cop shop; even had the Mayor stop by. This guy came from the city with a book of photos explaining what a hot dog cart should look like to “comply”. So for all; Portland may be the cart hub of the country; but as far as hot dog carts? Good luck!
Thanks for filling us in on the local scene Tommy! “most are on private property AND NOT SUBJECT to many of the laws and requirements of the brick and morter food service”. Private property vending certainly sounds like the way to go in that area.
While there are great locations that are on public property such as the courthouse square, parks, and ball fields, I find that vending on private property such as strip malls, auto dealerships, and retail stores gives you much more latitude and a lot less hassle.
The important thing is to be flexible and use your ingenuity. If you decide you only want to vend in one certain area, then you may be disappointed. If you keep your options open, then opportunities open too.
U guys r great! !
đ It’s the readers who make this place great.
I recently was denyed a city license to operate business during a tulip festival in
La C….., WA. But I went to the city council meetings and asked why… since the codes didn’t state that there was any reason that they may have denied me the right.
I was told that the city council denied my license request but then when I asked them face to face in the meeting and no one was aware of my application, I found out later the office of the city planner had some disagreements in the past with the man that owned the property that I would be working on. They weren’t really happy with the fact that his nephew was selling helicopter rides also at the end of town.
The Mayor was at the meeting and said that he would check into it and the entire City Council all being business owners agreed that it was wrong to have been denied. And within a few hours on the next morning I received a call saying that I was approved… So there you have it……..I became famous in the towns around because I am the first hotdog (Open Air Vendor) in this town for over 30 years. So there you have it….
As my dad used to say… You can ask anybody anything… all they can say is yes or no….But if they act like they are going to hit you… just run. haha
Donna-Marie
Hot Dog Heaven Cloud 9
Good for you Donna-Marie! So many times I hear from folks who wanted to get into the dog biz but didn’t pursue it. You know why? Because they didn’t see any hot dog carts in their town so they assumed it must not be allowed. Then a few months later they are dismayed to see a cart on the courthouse lawn. Turns out it was OK all along, they just never asked.
Thanks for the great lesson Donna-Marie! And I love your dad’s quote. Especially the last part, lol.
I had the same thing happen to me in Bullhead City AZ. before the class started I talked to this woman about carts, and she told me, and my wife that she would not let any carts in bullhead city, I guess she owns the city now. (she works for mohave county ) her job at that time was to give the class and not her personal remarks about how she is going to run the health dept. and Bullhead City I took the food handlers class in Kingman. when I went to get my cart inspected it all went well except one little item. the inspector did not like the water heater ( no NSF ) that heater is the best thing on the cart, any way thanks for getting me all fired up, keep up the good work
Sometimes they need to find at least one thing wrong just to say they did. Thanks for the kind words Ron. This is fun isn’t it?!!!
Ron,
I have no idea if you are still out there in Kingman. If you are, can you tell me what your experience has been? I own a vacation home in Kingman and am considering buying a hot dog cart and working it in Kingman. Any experience or knowledge you can share would be appreciated. You can email me at terrificmarketing@gmail.com.
Thanks.
I like the letter Mary Jayne sent in I’ll keep that one on file
Me too.
@Ron … how’s it going with your cart? Did you ever get it to pass the inspection? I should call but I just haven’t had a chance. It is STILL the MOST BEAUTIFUL cart in all existence.
Stay well, we’ll talk soon (I hope)
Skip
We just moved to Laughlin, NV and were hoping to get into the hot dog cart business in Bullhead City. I don’t know if I accessed all recent comments and my husband and I have not seen one hot dog cart in the area. Are they totally prohibited? If so, what about Las Vegas…we could make the 1-1\2 hr drive to and from if we had to. Our daughter runs hot diggity dog in No. California quite successfully. Thanks for any feedback.
There is always a bit of red tape and hoops to jump through. Some places are worse than others. Just be persistent. You can do it!