I really need your input on this one Steve.
I built an E-Z Built Hot Dog Cart from your plans and videos. After just a couple days of slingin’ I was approached by a city official in one of the beach front cities near me.
She was so impressed with the cart and the taste of the dogs that she asked if I would like to set up at the beach this summer!
This beach only offers one permit. I have to write a proposal and get it in to the department of parks and recreation by the 11th.
I have never done one of these before and I have no idea what to bid for rent. Should I give a flat fee, a percentage, money and percentage?
How many hours of me working a day is reasonable for them to see it’s profitable for them.
I really want this spot but I don’t want to overbid or underbid, I have no idea what a beach rental would be. Any ideas?
-James
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First of all, let me say “Congrats”! That’s awesome.
Readers are probably wondering how you got an offer like this on your second day of slingin’. I think I have the answer.
James built a gorgeous E-Z Built (pics coming soon), he sells a delicious products, and he has great people skills.
So, how should James approach this proposal?
I would keep it simple and propose a flat fee. I don’t like percentage deals because it gives away too much info to the landlord. I wouldn’t want them knowing how much you make because once they see that you are doing well they will inevitably raise your rent on the next agreement.
As far as how many hours a day to work this location, I would not even talk about that. If they want you to commit to specific hours they will tell you. You can address it if it comes up.
My over-all philosophy in negotiating is to shut my mouth. I don’t bring up anything that isn’t already on the table unless it can benefit me more than the landlord, or protect my position. If they want terms on something specific like the hours you will work then they will ask for it.
It’s like dealing with the health inspector. Don’t ask questions about things that the inspector hasn’t even thought about. You’re just asking for a “no”.
O.K. Slingers, help a brother out. How should James play this? Let us know in the comments.
-Steve
P.S. Here is a teaser picture of Jame’s E-Z Built Hot Dog Cart.
This is a really nice, really big cart – it should be awesome at the beach.
I had promised James I would post his pics last Monday but our editorial schedule was already packed. I’m glad he is such an easy going guy. He totally understood.
Anyways, I will post the rest of the pics this coming Monday.
Now – leave a comment on how James should bid this one out.
living in NJ,i know many miles of beaches.to be the only vendor,i would jump on it
I’d jump on it just to be at the beach! Nice office.
Hey, James, the cart looks great. The graphics make all the difference.
You can visit City Hall and ask to talk to the Treasurer or whoever pays out the bids.
Ask them what terms they are used to/limited to for such rental contracts.
Ask if you may access to records for similar contracts for past years.
You might also visit a local office of the Small Business Association to see if they can help you with planning proposals for next year. If not the beach, look for other locations such as sandlot ball fields and outdoor flea markets which will be used heavily in the summer.
Good luck!
The graphics do make all the difference. Great point.
My first thought is that it sounds great, but it’s possibly too much right this minute. I’m guessing the bid comes up yearly. I think I would bid cautiously and purposefully low this time. If you get it, great! You’ve got a (probably) good spot, at a low, flat rate. If you don’t get it, you have a year of selling, earning customers and seeing what kind of business the winning bid does on the beach. You can place a more educated bid on the next go. You’ll be successful regardless, I can tell by the attitude you have. Go get ’em! Anyway, that’s my 2¢ worth…
If the city official asked James, then I’m thinking maybe there is no one else bidding, so yes Dan I would agree with you and bid low.
First off, don’t commit to any agreement for time on site. With rain days and foul weather that can be a problem and beaches have their busy and slow hours. Don’t get involved in that unless they ask, then be very careful. What is the “season” and what about minimum time? What about special occasions? Can others set up then?
I would set a flat rate, not getting involved in your gross. It is none of their business and has been said, it opens them to raising rates if you seem to be making big bucks.
I can’t understand you getting asked so quickly, and how they can ask you, then expect to be paid too. Sounds a bit fishy to me. Check on prior set ups with others to see what problems they had.
As for the beach, what is across the street? Is there another site they don’t control within site of the beach?
All great ideas Rick.
I’m not sure that the city official is even concerned about getting paid. She may just want to attract more beach goers to her community. I am very familiar with the stretch of shoreline that James is talking about. There are beaches every 5 or 10 miles for hundreds of miles up the coast. They all compete for beachgoers and the entry fees that come with them.
Find out if you will be responsible for trash pickup and disposal. While you can make a LOT of money selling at the shore, my experience with Jersey Shore beach users is that they leave an amazing amount of trash on the beach and in the parking lots.
It does stink when your customer’s trash ends up where it shouldn’t be. Bad PR for sure. But personally, I would not ask this question during negotiations.
My thought would be if beach users who are not customers overpile his trash can with tons of non hot dog cart trash, I’ve seen this happen at Jersey Shore snack bars, one trash can but 5 cans worth of trash thrown on top spilling all over. Picking that up at the end of the day would be a bummer!
Why don’t you just ask them? What’ the harm in being honest, you’ve been in business a short time, and really don’t know what kind of bid they are looking for, and see how they react, if they name a price that is way out of line, you can say thanks but no thanks. If it’s reasonable- everyone wins, the park, the dog seller, and especially the beach goers.
I do suggest going to the beach at short intervals, it will be really hard being on the beach, in the beautiful sun, watching beautiful women in bikini’s, everyone having fun, so try to work up to it-hope you can handle it! lol. [btw- I love the cart!]
Great advice. Sudden exposure to bikinis after a long winter can be bad for the blood pressure.
I would check with the town clerk. Almost always when there is a permitted vendor contract, that contract should be public information. So see what the bid looked like last year. If it’s a new situation, then you might already be over the hump, since you have a council member on your side.
Right on.
All of the responses before mine were all on point and covered all of the concerns James will encounter.
James should take a good look at them.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Ask for the previous five year bid history. It is public information. Ask for the vendors contact info as it should be public. Get ahold of them and ask if they are bidding because you hope to see them their this year and if they say they won’t be bidding ask of why and how much they think you should bid for and what if any problems they had. When you place your bid. Talk about the previous problems and use it to your advantage so it seems like you know what your talking about. I would suggest no more than 10.00 per day For the spot.
Thank all of you for your input. The reason I get such a great cross section of customers is I’m in the center of 3 hospitals and over 100 doctor offices, labs and therapy clinics. Patients coming and going all day long from all walks of life. I’m not leaving this spot, I’m adding a second spot. I really don’t have the luxury of time to research this because it was presented to me with a short window of opportunity left. Rick I know you think this smells fishy, but after I’m trying to set up next to the lake… where they live ha ha. Once again, thanks everyone. I’m not as naive as I am enthusiastic! As far as the girls in bikinis go, my wife works with me and just the threat of that will kill any enjoyment of their presents. Besides, I’m in my 60’s and had a very colorful life when I was a young single man, so been there- had that!
I Dont know where on The Jersey Shore he is talking about !!! I was Slinging Dogs in Wildwood NJ one block from the beach and boardwalk operating at a Friends Motel on private property !!! They Actually made me Live in Motel Manager !!! You can look it up Steve did an article Google Hot Dog Mike is Slinging The Dream on The Jersey Shore !!! In order to be on The Beach or on the streets you have to be a Vet to get the permit !!! WeenieWagonMike.com