OK slingers, I need your help. I just got a call from HDCN reader Steve Tornello who is putting together his E-Z Built Hot Dog Cart. He has the steam table installed and he added a flat top griddle, so he has a total of four burners.
Here’s the problem. He says that when all four burners are going he doesn’t have enough gas pressure and the flames are crapping out. He is using the 3/8 copper line that I specify in the video.
I know that a lot of you E-Z builders are running steam tables and grills off of the same propane tank and I’ve never heard of anyone having this problem before. I suggested trying a new regulator but he already did that with no improvement. He said he’s thinking of going to a larger gas line but I don’t think that’s the problem. I’m sure it’s something simple but I’m stumped.
I told Steve that I’d toss this out to the HDCN readers to see if someone in the ‘doggosphere has run into the same problem, and if so, to find out how they solved it.
How about it slingers? Got a fix? Let Steve know what you think in the comments.
Thanks!
-Steve
he should use either a 3/4 gas line. Not enough dispersment (sp) of gas to all the equipment. The stoves can take up alot of gas if both burners are running. I noticed that when I was running my griddle and my steam table.
He has a leak in one of the four burner conncections, or to the grill. Probably doesn’t show itsself until everything is lit. We had the same problem, fixed it with plummers tape around the connection. Hope this helps!
Also, it could be that he needs to turn the gas DOWN a bit, it may be blowing its self out.
Try a regulator with a larger opening.
I had the same thing. I had to place a “Y” directly off the bottle and run a separate line for my grill. Not enough flow for the demand.
start with the first burner to the propane tank light it and then go to the next one when you see where your flame weakens that is where the leak is but make sure that all burners are off only the one that you are lighting and let it burn for 10 seconds and then repeat the process until the leak shows it self if that does not work then you will need to change your regulator good luck
There are several possible causes, regulator, inside diameter of the gas line, air in the propane tank not being purged, regulator sensor tripping, etc…. . I personally run my lines separate with a high pressure regulator. the following are direct clips from and article at “http://gashosesandregulators.com/propaneregulatorfacts.html”
“Another often asked question is “I have a low pressure regulator but it does not seem to supply enough gas for my appliance.” Unfortunately, many of the preset low pressure regulators available in the marketplace use 1/4″ID hose and some are attached to a propane regulator with a 1/4″ NPT (normal pipe thread) outlet on the propane regulator. There is a limit to the volume of gas that can be delivered through this small ID hose at a fixed low propane pressure of 6 ounces . What can you do? Use a low pressure regulator with a 3/8″ID gas outlet and a gas hose of 3/8″ID. The amount of propane that can be delivered to the appliance is increased by a factor of 2.26 so the chances of starving your appliance for propane are greatly diminished.”
“Why does my grill have little or no flame? According to the Coleman company there are at least three possible reasons. First is that the propane tank might have been improperly filled. All tanks must be purged of air before being filled with gas. This purging requires filling with a small amount of gas and then emptying. Propane is heavier than air and will force the air out of the tank during the emptying. Filling with gas then can proceed. If the tank is not purged then the air is the first gas to exit the tank and the grill will either have no flame or a very low flame for possibly over an hour until the air does fully exit the tank. A second cause might be the automatic activation of a surge protection device within the propane regulator. If, for example, you turn on the tank valve before you fully turn off each of the burner knobs on the grill the surge protector will likely sense a leak and activate. The fuel flow will be very low. The remedy is to turn everything off, disconnect the tank, and reconnect everything before starting over. A third possible cause might be that the tank was overfilled. All propane tanks are now fitted with Overfill Protection Devices (OPD) which is designed to be activated by a float valve. The OPD feature prevents overfilling of the tank by shutting off the valve. A 20% empty space is necessary to prevent the tank from venting large amounts of propane when the ambient temperature rises. This OPD can also be inadvertently activated by tilting a very full tank during moving.”
Those should address his issue.
Make sure all equipment has the proper sized orifice for LP. Natural Gas equipment has a much larger diameter orifice.
Not much of a real problem here/ First what size tank are you running . if you are running the small tanks after you use them for a few min your gas pressure will go down starving the burners. Try switching to an either larger tank or a dual tank with an automatic regulator.
btw check for leaks also and if this don’t work or you want to hear a professional go to your local lp gas company NOT home depot . They should be able to hook you up to a pressurizer type device and tell you if your hook ups are working right and if you have the right size tubing going to your burner for all the devices you are trying to run.
I’m guessing that his griddle has it’s own regulator. If this is the case, he needs to make sure that his gas line initiates prior to the main regulator off the tank for high pressure. Regulator plus regulator means no pressure for griddle.
Hope this helps,
Ken
i concur with Wanda, i had the same issue on my cart, got a squirt bottle with soapy water, sprayed it and watched for bubbles, easily spotted got the plumbers tape and poof my problem was gone.
Try splitting the gas lines at the tank. I know coleman use to sell a splitter that would run to items. I have this set up on one of my carts and getting plenty of gas to both the steam table and the grill.
May seem obvious, but did he bleed the gas line?
Install another tank
Try an adjustable regulator.
Jim
A 3/4 ” trunk line will help. What are the BTU ratings for each appliance & what size tank(s) are being used. This will help with calculating his needs.
I completely agree with 1. hotdogman… 2. jaye…and 3. dixie kitchen…. you would need to solve this predicament with a combination of those three techniques to get the pressure required. Or you could separate out a selection of equipment and run similar sized orifaces and gas lines….tooo much btu ‘s required for simple piping. Don’t be afraid to have a family friend plumber verify after build or to consult with – too mant spots to cause problems.
What is ambient temperature-might not be able flash enough liquid to gas with the small cylinder
I would say a larger tank and larger piping, like a 1/2. Plus open the valves up to full, except right at the burner. Then adjust the burner to a lower flame. A gas regulator will help to judge the pressure flow.
Just add a second tank.That would also take care of you Spare tank and he will have twice the run time.It`s thangsgiving have a Turkey dog
Maybe try using a tee connection off of the propane tank. And use 2 separate regulators, one for the steam table, and the other for the grill. This may do the trick.
2 solutions, from the tank install a t and run 2 regulatorsoff one tank, I did this with my steam table and my instant water heater and split the burners, 2nd solution is install a high pressure regulator and turn down the burners
get a supply line that splits into 2
gas pipe size sounds small. 1/2od copper tube will carry 150,000 btuh for a 10 ft run. add up the BTUH requiremants of all the burners(its listed somewhere on the units). If he still has problems he should call the local LP gas supplir and have it looked at. LP gas is very dangerous if not installed properly.It will blow you up! Be careful.
Steve it has to be the diameter of your line…. There is too mich demand for this small tubing. I would replace the tubing from the regulator to the Y connection ( where the two line meet) with 1/2″ or 3/4″
I had a problem with my griddle not working when the burners were on it turned out to be a crimped line.
i had the same problem with my steam table. i had the pans too tight and the unburned gas was laying on the bottom of the pans–it had no way to escape so it would burn on the bottom of the pans and then dance around on the burner untill it when out. i to thought i had a gas pressure problem the problem was solved when i tool out one of the divider bars. this let the unburned gas out and i never had an other flame out.
I thought I was the only one with this problem! I put a grill on the cart and I could not keep the burners going. My son solved the problem by changing to a high output, high volumn regulator. It should have a red knob and you then can adjust the gas to how much you need. The size of the gas lines are fine just like Steve said. Hope that solves your problem.
I have had this problem with fryers I use as well. The culprit turned out to be not enough oxygen getting to the burners, the multi flames robed the others of sufficient oxygen.
The remedy was larger vent holes…
Also anohter issue was to small of a regulator, replaced mine with a high volume from Tractor Supply and all is well now.
Check the lines to make sure there’s no trash clogging the lines or gas ports and check the lines for any kinks. Have had both these things happen. Hope this helps someone even if it’s not ur problem.
Even thogh I am newcopmer and haven’t started in the business yet, I am impressed with the reactions I have gotten from fellow slingers.
Steve I don’t know what to first..first one burner at a time (if your’s has adjustable air vent’s)make sure they are adj. correctly…Any fire needs oxygen to burn…Is there enough air getting to the flame itself?..If that’s all good then there is not enough gas coming out of the regulator to fuel the fire…..Fuel+Oxygen=Fire..Yea a little spark to get it going is also needed…If it were in front of me I could fix it…Call if you need!..
The new style regulators only allow a certain ‘BTU Volume’ of gas thru because of the new regulations. He will need an older style of regulator, or Tee @ the bottle and use 2 regulators, one for each bank of burners. The newer regulators will also shut down if the volume is too great. Try a farm store that has those high volume weed burners. Those regulators allow a higher volume of gas thru.
He could split the gas line and use 2 regulators.
He needs to change the regulator to one with a bigger diaphram. That should resolve the problem.
use 2anks then, 1 for the stream table and 1 for the grill…
1\2″ line to under the burners than reduce to 1\4″
to burners. It is the same as water pressure, large supply than reduce to mantain pressure,
Here is a checklist to work with:
1. Be sure that the orifices are for propane and not natural gas. (Natural gas openings are larger)
2. Although you have a regulator on the tank, each appliance should have its own regulator. (These appliances are industrial grade compared to a camp stove)
3. Run a ¾” trunk line and ell & T off it to your appliances.
4. Don’t try to run the water heater off the same tank. (Actually, don’t be surprised if you can run the water heater that Steve recommends off the residual gas after you think the appliance tank is empty.) It is kind of hard to explain cubic inches of vapor vs. tank size in this blog.
I’ll be glad to discuss this with you if Steve has no objections to passing along my number.
(276) 223-8704.
Steve, I had a similar problem when I got my cart, new and commercially made. The gas feed holes were too small at the end of the line where it feeds into the burners. They sent me two sets with larger holes and I upgraded from small to medium. Problem solved.
I had the same problem with the same set-up. I have a double tank set-up so I just set my griddle up on a gas line by it’s lonsome. hope this helps.
Just unscrew the top cap not the regulator and turn the screw in there to increase or decrease pressure
Top cap on the regulator
Get a red top regulator, it puts out more gas, you should not have to change the gas lines, I am running a Grill, and two steam table burners (one is round type and the other is about 16 inches long). I have two propane tanks but only use one for the L5 and as a back up tank.
Duggs Doggs
Good!! Good!!
run individual lines to each burner from a manifold! Good luck!
Check for any bends in gas hose.
Always turn on gas slowly he may have a tank safety valve reset feature which if you open gas to quickly it sets off this safety feature.
Check burners for blockage if suspicious blow them out with compressed air.
Is he using a new tank? Make certain it was purged of air before being filled for correct mixture of gas.
He may need a two stage regulator Steve this will commonly boost pressure about 15% but it could simply be stuck so here is how to UNSTICK a stuck regulator. BE CAREFUL FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER SAFETY FIRST
1. Low flame, low temperature, yellow flame: This has become the biggest problem with many grills these days and it’s almost always because of the regulator (the funny UFO shaped thing on the gas hose). Regulators seem to be stickier these days and when they stick you don’t get enough gas to generate a good grilling temperature. To get your regulator unstuck you need to release the pressure on it. Follow these steps exactly:
1. Turn off the gas at the propane tank
2. Disconnect the gas line from the tank
3. Open the grill lid
4. Turn all control valves to high
5. Wait for about a minute
6. Turn all control valves to off
7. Reconnect the gas line to the tank
8. SLOWLY turn on the gas at the tank
9. Light the grill normally
10. Your grill should now heat normally
To keep the regulator from sticking again make sure that you turn off the control valves first, then turn off the tank valve. Always open your tank valve slowly.
I’m new to the hot dog game but have helped friends. I’m about to buy Steves’ books to build my own. My friend Teed his and ran a griddle for breakfast and switched to grill and it works off of one regulater. You should NEVER USE 2 UNLESS YOU’RE RUNNING SEPERATE TANKS N LINES. THANKS TO ALL OF YA’LL FOR SHARING SO MUCH.
Do you have 4 burners on the steam table + the addition of the flat top griddle?
I have 4 burners on my steam table guys, feed with a preset regulator and a 1/4″ line, and it is all so efficeint this way.
Process of elimination, Run your burners on the steam table.
Get a professional installer (usually a LP place or someone who does upper end barbQ installations, who would have the tools and gauge/s, try a Weber dealer) have them set the air/fuel doors under the burners, this is called balancing.
They use a heat sensing thermocouple to measure the height and temperature with. I worked in a gas lab where we developed burners for appliances, and in this application it is all done with thermo imaging which measures the flame height and temperature with a camera.
Once you have the 4 or 2 burners balanced on the steam table, then proceed to the skillet.
You should be running seperate tanks for the steam table and the skillet.
I am positive the skillet has differenf fuel volume requirements than the steam table burners; So don’t even try to power the skillet of the same tank. Also, make certain that the correct fuel metering jet (one for nat gas and propane differ) are in the skillet. Most skillets I have seen and let’s use a 36″ one for example require a 1/2″ gas line to them.
When I bought my cart brand new, the burners were all screwed up… I had to adjust the air/fuel doors to get them to work right. Also, when these things sit around on the shelf (burners) they get clogged with spiders and webs. Mine had that in one of them and it worked just great once all the debris was blown out. Hope this helps you out.
I solved my problem by using another Tank. Actualy I have 3 tanks 1 for the water heater, 1 for the steam table, 1 for the grill. only costs 28.00 to fill the every 2 – 3 weeks. When the presure runs low for the steam table I switch to the water heater tank, and then use the low presure for the water heater. It seems to work just fine for this dogger………..
I run a total of 10 burners on my rig from two 30# tanks on self transfer regulator and all my appliances are low pressure , but I run a grill with 4 burner and a flat griddle with 4 burners and a steam table with 2 burners all at full blast. My city requires 1/2″ black pipe for propane with flare fittings that reduce to 3/8″ so that may be a what he needs . It’s also cheap fix the pipe is very inexpensive and you can run any configuration u like. And also the larger pipe going into the reducer acts to increase the pressure .
Hope this helps !
I noticed a couple of answeres included ‘plumbers tape’ as a repair for the gas line. Is this recommended? I’m asking because I have no idea, but would like to know…just in case. Sounds dangerous….
Tons of great advice here. I’m learning more just by reading it.
Thanks,
ajh
The tank may need to be purged.
Check out the NGPA safety bulletin.
NPGA
Can anyone tell me what exactly you use the “grill” for? I have one and I don’t have enough demand to use it.
P.S. Check the lines and burners for dirt dobber nests. That was why my AC in my truck wasn’t working. 🙂
Change out the 4 burners to one gas grill burner. like you would use on your gas grill ,for under the steam table and use one round burner 17000, for the flat top grill. He will have all the heat he will need.
Air flow . not enough air getting to the burners
First off I have had to return regulators to the store after purchase, they just didn’t work correctly.
Has for a leak check it the old fashion way a little soapy water if you see bubbles or it blowing or moving away you have a leak.
Third, recheck the orfices to make sure they are propane not natural gas and then check to see if one is blocked by a piece of dirt or metal .
Easy fix, the Grill needs an independent line, also check for leaks,with soap and water thats important, grill must be seperated with differant line and tank for proper pressure,with regulator just for the grill, it will be just like mine, has a 2.5 x 3 plate grill and steamers is on seperate line works great” no- problems ,FIXED””
ok Steve how are you going to figure out who get’s the chip clip’s?..
First, make sure all burners are LP.
Second, check all joints for leaks (your local propane dealer should be able to help you)
Third, consider running second Tank& regulator to devide the unit up.
Nothing Exceeds like Excess!!
You could go to a larger dia line but, that would only be masking the cause.
Really simple, put a Y at the bottle and run 2 seperate lines, 1 for the griddle and 1 for the steamer. I did that with the grill and the steamer and workers great its the pressure not the size of the line
Willie, I have a grill on my Big Dog Cart from Ben’s Cart and use it everyday that I setup. First it get attention, the smoke/smell brings in customers. It also brings great attention about the cart and the design which brings customers. You can get a small griddle and place over the burners and cook peppers and onions on, more customers. I guess the key is that it brings in customers. I have found that when you attact people you make more money…..
Duggs Doggs
Good!! Good!!
You need a bigger regulator one for a mobile home,with a propane furnace,had this problem before,that solved it.
I agree with Jack….it is most likely your orifice diameter.
Install at least a 1/2″ gas line. I have 1/2″ copper tubing gas lines in my house, that runs the following…
stove top, oven, water heater, space heater, bbq grill, dryer and never had an issue. Remember that every fitting restricts the gas flow because their inside diamiter is smaller than you gas line.
Another option is to use a high pressure regulator.
Good luck,
Jimbuoy
Wow so good to see everyone wanting to help each other super response good going folks
Great group of slinger we have here!
Wow you really had me at first Haha