Wow! What a great response we had to the hot dog condiments and toppings article. In keeping with that theme, I’d like to pass along a real gem from HDCN reader Michael Sacher…
Steve,
I was organizing my recipes for a family cookbook that my wife is publishing. Among them was a recipe for a coney sauce from Crystal’s. I have the original recipe and here it is:
PERTH AMBOY’S CRYSTAL’S HOT DOG SAUCE
Yes everyone, this is the REAL THING original. This was gotten directly from the owner of Crystals sometime in the early sixties. You will notice that this makes enough for a whole days worth of hot dog vending, if that is your business. It freezes well for normal eaters. We make a batch every spring, just in time for grilling season, so I have tasted it, and assure you this is IT.
CONEY ISLAND SAUCE
3 LBS. CHOPMEAT
1 ONION
1 TSP. CLOVES
1 T. SALT
1 1/2 TSP. CHILI POWDER
1 TSP. CELERY SALT
1 TSP. PAPRIKA (CAN USE MORE FOR MORE COLOR)
1 TSP. CURRY POWDER
COOK CHOPPED ONION IN A LITTLE OIL, ADD CHOPPED MEAT AND CLOVES AND BROWN. ADD ALL OTHER INGREDIENTS AND 1/2 GALLON OF WATER. SIMMER FOR 3 HOURS. ADD WATER AS NECESSARY. WHEN COOKED PUT IN BLENDER AND MAKE A FINE MASH.
(“Once upon a time, the place to go for the best hot dog was the Crystal Restaurant in Perth Amboy.NJ (sic)..the “Coney” meat sauce was stellar, a perfect complement to the weiner along with a little bit of chopped onion and a light shmeer of mustard.” Chowhound Magazine)
Respectfully yours,
Michael Sacher
********************
Just more proof that I have the most wonderful readers in hot dogdom. You folks are the best.
Thanks for the recipe Michael!
-Steve
P.S. Happy St Patrick’s Day!
I guess I’ll be cooking this weekend. Thank you!
Wow! Thanks for sharing that, sounds delish! Good luck to you and your wife on that Cookbook, let us know when it comes out, I love cookbooks!!!!
Okay, this southerner has a dumb question. What exactly is chopped meat? In these parts chopped meat is bbq pork, as in “do you want it pulled or chopped?”
Hi Brian-
“Chop meat” is just ground beef chopped really small in the frying pan. (usually with your spatula). Some people like to use pork or sausage, or a combination of all three.
sounds like a good recipe may have to try it
thanks
Thanks, Michael, this recipe sounds great. I can’t wait to try it. Pardon me for not knowing, but is chopped meat the same as what we call ground beef here in the South?
Thanks again for sharing.
Sorry, but that is not the real thing. Looks good but that is not real coney sauce. My grandfather lived his whole life in Jackson, MI and passed down the real coney sauce recipe from way back in the day to my father who passed it on to me. But I am willing to guess that people don’t like the real thing because of the chicken liver, beef liver, beef heart, and a little bit of ground- but mmmm mmmm mmm its soooo good.
@Jai, I would LOVE that sauce that you are talking about! YUMMM!
I’ll ask the same question, (I’m Southern, too) “Chop Meat” is what? Sounds like pork BBQ to me, too. Is it ground beef?
Wanda Swan
Steve,
Happy St. Patrick’s Day back at ya! Our Special today is:
THE KILKENNY DOG~100%BlackAngus Beef Natural Casing hot Dog wrapped in Classic Flat Cut Corned Beef Brisket and crowned with Savoy Cabbage Slaw nesting on Our Homemade Potato Roll, served with Pub Fries and an Icy Cold Pocono Birch Beer…..$3.17
Ok. Now I’m officially starving. Thanks so much for my next “secret” recipe.
I DON’T MEAN TO RAIN ON ANYONES PARADE BUT ALL YOU HAVE TO DO TO MAKE A SAUCE RICHER TASTEING IS OVERCOOK IT TO THE BURNING POINT AND IT WORKS YOU JUST HAVE TO WATCH IT AT THAT POINT
ALSO I COOK MY SAUCE FOR THREE DAYS TO GET IT THAT WAY IF IF YOUR AFTER RESULTS
Yes, in NJ chopped meat usually refers to ground beef. Your choice of cut/fat ratio.
I also have had the original Coney Sauce as my father was a butcher back in the day and he told me the sauce was originally invented to find something to do with the unusable parts. It’s really labor intensive and not cost effective these days but to get close to the flavor, I use cheap hot dogs ground up along with the ground beef. A lot of the same ingredients go into the dogs that went into the old sauce. I have a batch of this simmering right now and can’t wait to put it on a dog. Thank You for this.
I also agree that the original coney sauce is labor intensive but I find it is highly cost effective. I make about 2 gallons for around $20. I have the recipe at home and will try to remember to come back here later tonight and upload it for anyone curious 🙂
JAi ,
Would love your recipe just cant find a sauce like the old days.
Made about 50 of these and no winners.
Hi Jai,
I would love to try your recipe, born and raised in detroit and still searching for the real deal or at least 90% .. I was looking for your recipe but you never came back and loaded it up.. If you don’t mind I’d love to taste it..
Cullen
Sounds delicious! Almost sounds as if it’s similar to the sauce they put on the Kuntzler hot dogs at the Texas Famous Hot Weiner Restaurant in Hanover, PA. Does anyone have that recipe?
Hey, I’ve had the dogs a long time ago at the Texas Lunch in Hanover I recall them as being good. I used to go there to pick up my UTZ chips which I wish they sold here in Florida. When I lived in Maryland I sold the Kunzler (no “T”) hot dogs they were outstanding! I sold so many many that my salesman Charlie G. invited me each year to a Penn State football game and a Phillies game. Those were the days. What was the subject again? Patrick
Now my stomach is growling! This sounds fantastic!
always looking to go outside the box, anyone ever tried serving seasoned, fried sour kraut? playing with idea please share
I tried this recipe tonight. I followed it to the “T”
It now has to simmer for 3 hrs. I hope it taste better then it smells. Right now it’s not looking to be very good. What kind of chili do the people of north eat? Our HD makes us use non-meat chili on the cart. We use a can veggie chili; we put in a food processor and then add a little ketchup to it for a slight sweet taste. Our customers seem to love it.
Hey all
I ve never slung a dog outside of my backyard. This will be my first go of it and I believe the condiments are going to make all the difference. Oh, by the way, I’m way up in Canada and I know things are done differently up here. I personally am not a fan of chilli dogs but have made sauces and gravies that taste great. I’ll try this one, this weekend. Do chilli dogs and sauces do well down there?
You Sauce, I Sauce, we all Sauce. Seems to me that in all regions of the U.S. there is a different version of the Coney Sauce. As long as it is selling off our carts, I don’t think it really matters whos sauce is the Original. Just a thought. It all sounds good and our customers seem to lve our versions of it. Lets all have fun and serve it up! Have an awesome Spring.
Donna, I was looking at a Mexican style pickled cabbage tonight. It sounded great. I think it would go great with a Monterey jack cheese, mustard and mild sausage……
New York hot dog cart onion sauce
2 tablespoons canola oil 2 medium onions, sliced thin
1/4 cup ketchup
1 pinch ground cinnamon
1/8 teaspoon chili powder
1 dash garlic powder
1 dash hot pepper sauce
1 dash salt
1/2 cup water
Directions
In a medium skillet, heat oil over medium heat.
Add onion slices.
Saute about 7-10 minutes until golden& limp.
Mix in the ketchup.
Add the cinnamon, chili powder, garlic powder,hot pepper sauce& salt.
Pour in water, stir.
Bring to a boil.
Reduce heat and simmer uncovered about 10 minutes.
Makes about 1 cup
Customers love this sauce here in the midwest
This subject is long debated as to where it originated from. There are many different versions and they can be found all over the web. Here is a quote from Nicks.
“While the birth of the Coney Island hot dog has been well documented, it is more difficult to pinpoint the exact origin of the famous “Coney Island sauce.” There is no solid evidence that the unique chili sauce featuring finely ground hamburger and bearing the Coney Island name originated in Brooklyn, New York. All that is clear is that by 1920 dogs topped with this distinctive “Coney Island sauce” had gained widespread popularity in Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts.”
This sounds very much like a recipe we have used … it was great … one difference is our recipe called for using suet (yes, it’s an OLD recipe) … we used crisco as an alternative.
Hello to All, Their are as many chili Sauce recipes as sand on the Jersey Shore. Everyone has the best and probably so. But here is a good suggestion………. At the end of the day if you should have shriveled or water logged hot dogs and sausage, don’t through them out. Keep them in your freezer till you have a bunch. Thaw them, grind them and throw them in your next batch of chili with the ground beef. Trust me on this I have been cooking over 40 years. Hot dogs and sausage have great flavor and so will your chili.
Anybody out there know the recipe for the famous Pals hotdog sauce? Pals is a local hot dog hamburger chain in East Tennessee. I was told that it was purchased from a local diner named Dippsy Doodle back in the 60’s.
This is a recipe I use that doesn’t take a long time to make.
1 pound ground beef
1 onion, chopped
2 tablespoons prepared mustard
2 tablespoons cider vinegar
2 tablespoons white sugar
1 tablespoon water
1 teaspoon Worcestershire sauce
1/4 teaspoon celery seed
1/4 teaspoon hot pepper sauce
1/4 cup ketchup
In a large skillet over medium high heat, saute the ground beef and onion for 5 to 10
minutes, or until meat is well browned. Crumble meat to a fine texture with a fork, if
necessary; drain excess fat.
Stir in the mustard, vinegar, sugar, water, Worcestershire sauce, celery seed, hot pepper
sauce and ketchup. Mix well reduce heat to low and simmer, uncovered, for 35 to 40 minutes.
I’m cooking this sauce right now. I really wish I had a picture of what the finished product is supposed to look like. Right now it’s way too watery.
When I started cooking it everyone in the house said is smelled great. Maybe it will thicken up once I throw it in the blender, but right now it looks like soup.
This IS the original !! Grew up in Perth Amboy woth Chrystal and Coney Island almost side by side with the same basic recipe ! Used to buy 5 or 6 at a time while ” hanging out” on Smith Street !! Thanks for sharing !
Is the crystal restaurant gone? I drove all the way from Arizona to get a crystal dog!
I don’t know…
Wow
Thanks…this old Jersey Boy, born and raised in Woodbridge, many hours at the Perth Amboy YMCA befor I took for for 27 years in the USAF every so often would say to my wife Judi (A Jersey Girl)…Gee I wish I could have one of the crytsal hot dogs. You made my day..many fond memories of the place after swimming lessons and selling Chrismas Trees in the YMCA lot! Thanks
Jim
Great ! Spent many hours “attached” to the parking meter in front of the old Chrystal as well as the Coney Island on Smith St , watching the crusing cars al la ” American Graffitti ! We would order 4-5 at a time and couldn’t beat the taste ! EVERY time I am back in Jersey ( now in Texas ,formally in CA ) I stop in Perth Amboy for a much needed “infusion ” ! Thanks !
PS I was also given the ” original” reciepe 30 years ago and it is the same one !!!
Thanks guys for all the tips , reciepes ..one queston though, is the red onion sauce served on the dog hot or cold?
There are some errors in this recipe! My grandfather was part owner of the Crystal Restaurant as well as the Coney Island Restaurant in Perth Amboy New Jersey. The hot dog sauce was served in both restaurants, but his original sauce recipe, I believe went with him to the Crystal restaurant when he sold the Coney Island Restaurant. I mention this because he was incredibly secretive about the sauce recipe. Even the staff didn’t know the ingredients. He would make up the seasoning mix and pre-portion it for the cooks to combine with the meat, lard, and water. The original recipe was 12lbs of meat, 5lbs of lard and 1/2 gallon of water. If you are making the recipe with 3lbs of meat you want to use a 1/2 quart or 16 ounces o water. I can tell you that the mix of spices is almost correct, but one is missing. Out of respect for my grandfather, I’ll leave you to discover the missing spice for yourselves. Good luck!
LP
I also grew up in Perth Amboy and enjoyed the best hotdogs ever. Have been trying to find the sauce recipe for years. If that was your grandfather I must know you and your family. I knew the Crystal and Coney Island resturants for many of my young days.Would appreciate if you would contact me about the rcipe and your family. Thanks.
Mike Balsamides 404 321 4492Atlanta)
Has anyone ever tried Ray’s Chili sauce for Hot Dogs?
Rays is second best to Chilli Mans coney island sauce. They no longer make the Chilli Man hot dog sauce so now I settle for rays. Joe Defrates invented the Chilli Man one and it was the absolute BEST. Does anyone out there know the recipe for the Chilli man hot dog sauce??? Invented Springfield, Illinois.
I use Chili Man no bean for my chili dogs. My customers like it.
GREW UP IN HOPELAWN. LOVED THOSE CONEY ISLAND HOT DOGS. THEY HAD A FLAT GRILL IN THE WINDOW. STEAMED ROLLS WRAPPED IN WAXED PAPER. BOUGHT THEM BY THE DOZEN. THEY WERE ONLY 15 CENTS EACH. GETTING HUNGRY JUST THINKING ABOUT THEM.
I’m guessing either cumin, coriander or nutmeg is the missing spice and I’m leaning heavily toward nutmeg.
To those that tried the recipe… How was it ? Thinking of trying it myself.
Steve-please tell me how yuo have the crystal resturant sauce. as a native from perth amboy, have been trying to find that speacial hot dog sauce for years. please respond. thanks.
It’s simple. I have the best subscribers in the hot dog biz. It’s not me… it’s them!
Enjoy the sauce Mike!
Does anyone have photos of the Hot Dog Pushcarts from smith St. (Near the banks) Or Fayette St. (Near the horse watering fountain). Perth Amboy, NJ in the 1940’s thru 1960’s? It was always a treat to have a couple foot-longs!
I grew up in the town adjacent to Perth Amboy, and visited the Crystal many times with my Dad in the 1950s & 60s.
The recipe printed here is indeed fairly close to the Crystal’s original Coney sauce, but as LP points out, the ratios are slightly off and the seasoning list isn’t quite complete. In any case, the printed recipe submitted by Michael is not bad. I used a similar recipe for years until a handwritten copy (by “George” of the original Crystal) was handed down to me.
By the way…although under new ownership after all these years, the Crystal (in Perth Amboy, NJ) is still very much in business, they still have their famous Coney Island dogs, and the sauce is unchanged. I was there a couple of months ago and enjoyed couple of the hotdogs…which were as good as ever. My work has me traveling quite a bit, and I’ve sampled Coneys in Michigan, PA, Canada, New York, and Cincinatti.
Crystal’s version was and is still the best.
But I could be biased 😉
Thanks Howard!
Howard
Could you possibly share your modifcations with us..please. What town did you grow up in?
Jim
Brings back some very fond memories of spending the afternoon at the Perth Amboy YMCA for swimming lessons and gym class. Then getting one of these before I got on the Public Service bus 48 to Woodbrideg..my home. Thnaks
Jim
Thanks for sharing! With the cooler weather coming, I’ll make this for a change, instead of my regular Chili! When I worked at ”Perth Amboy Savings Institution” (Bank) in Perth Amboy, my co-workers and I would have lunch at ”The Crystal”. Sally.
There doesn’t seem to be a lot of spice in here for that much meat, doesn’t sound like it will be that tasty. I make a Texas Weiner sauce that calls for a pound of meat and has more spice in it than that.
Grew up pretty poor in Carteret, if one of us needed shoes my mother and us kids would take the 62 bus to Perth Amboy for shopping and if we were good, she would buy us a Coney Island hot dog from Crystals. It was THE BEST! especially in winter when it was freezing outside! I will mix up a batch of this and make a Coney Island dog for my 96 year old mother. (Jim, I think you used to take the 46 bus.)
I worked at Crystals in Perth Amboy when I was 18. I worked for Gus and Louie taught me how to wait tables. Wonderful memories.
In the early sixties the best hot dog meat sauce was at Gus’s Greek luncheonette across the street from Crystal’s. Even the Coney Island restaurant down the street from Crystal’s couldn’t touch Gus’s. I have tried to reproduce it and can’t.
Greeks can cook. No doubt!
Anybody ever try Patterson’s hot dog chili sauce? To me it’s as good or even better then Ray’s (I never was able to try Chilli Man’s; they never sold it here in Florida).
Still looking for a can of ChilliMan’s coney island hot dog sauce so let me know if anyone can sell me one. Thanks.
1 tsp of Cloves ?
Is that garlic cloves or the spice called Cloves (whole or ground) ?
I think it’s the spice.
It seems every town had its own version of Coney sauce. I can’t say one is better than another so I must try them all. I was a teenager in the mid fifties. Born and raised in Perth Amboy, NJ. I loved Crystal’s Coneys.
You came up in a great era Russ.
The Hot Dog Sauce from Crystal’s in Perth Amboy..is just that.Someone’s special version of a Coney Island Hot Dog sauce.My Dad many years ago actually worked in Crystals..late 50’s…Harry Patras was the owner way back….from Greece.
The Crystal was owned by my grandfather and great-uncle, Harry Patras and Gus Patras, from about 1928 to 1978. I worked there when I was in high school, dishwashing, bussing, and occasionally as a counterman.
The recipe above is incorrect – one important spice is missing, and one is incorrect, and one is not the correct ratio.
These guys were quite secretive about the recipe – they would make up the spice mixture by themselves, and then package up pre-mixed portions in Dixie cups, topped with Saran Wrap (or waxed paper, in earlier years), so the staff could cook a batch when needed.
My dad did not get the recipe until he was in his fifties, and I and my siblings got it from him when we were in our fifties.
In fact, I just made a big batch for the wedding of a niece (picnic wedding), and the smell and taste of it was a complete flashback to my childhood.
The incorrect recipe that you have at the start of this says celery salt. In fact, it uses celery seed.
Cloves refers to ground clove.
The spice that is missing is cinnamon.
And the real recipe uses about four times as much chili powder as your recipe shows.
The various versions of “Coney Dog sauce” and “Texas Weiner sauce” we’re almost all created by immigrants from Greece or the Balkans, and they are similar to the fine grained meat sauces (“mima”) used for pastas in that part of the world, relying on the collection of more Middle Eastern spices.
Thank you Argyre!
Hi Argyre,
Very interesting about your family history. Thanks for clearing up the original posters recipe. I did put together a batch “with your corrections” and boy is that clove strong. I’m sure this will cook down and meld with all of the other flavors with the meat. Just a big wow on the clove intesity!
Thanks again!!
Doug
The spelling is also very perth amboy.
This was such a great memory. There was a Crystals on Albany St , New Brunswick 1956 /+|-, a few years. They moved . great sauce I tried the so called original recipe here and still had a missing flavor , I think it was cinnamon and globe powder not cloves and celery seed not celery salt, …I hope …I will make it right this time and pray for the magic , I am olde and this post brought tears to my eyes.
Hi Ron. I hope the magic happens for you. Great memories!
what about the hot dog stand at the railroad station in amboy 1967 and still ther costas snack bar best homemade chili in the world i should know im george costas demetri james costas son who also had a store on 58 smith st from 1947 to 67 10 cents 3 for a quarter old timers should remember 10 cent coffee 7 cents dailly news pinball 10 cents 3 games for qurter which in those days were pure silver till 1965 thats history my father been making the best chili fo over70 years!!!!
Awesome! Thanks for checking in George! Great memories I’m sure.
I had many a Coney Island hot dog at the Crystal in Perth Amboy. The owners daughter Maryann was in my class at Perth Amboy HS. A few door down from the Crystal was another diner, the Coney Island diner. Kind of like twin restaurants. Liked the hot dogs at both. Best hot dogs I’ve ever eaten
Very cool Marc!
Ron of New Brunswick – Crystals on Abany Street 1956’s or thereabouts
The Recipe as described was accurate and with was cinnamon and clove powder not cloves and celery seed not celery salt, …I hope …I will make it right this time and pray for the magic , I am older and this post brought tears to my eyes. This is the Correct Batch and familiar to me and my Nose affirms the recipe and with chopped cold onions on top….Heaven ! . 01/02/2024 I
am making a batch as described….simmering right now.
Nostalgia at it’s finest!